Manual vs. Automatic
09-22-2006, 05:18 PM
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Manual vs. Automatic
Hope none of the purists get heated at me but let me throw out a question and get some feedback. To preface this; I have never owned a muscle car or anything with a resemblance to looking cool. All my vehicles have been boring old transportation and having said that I drive a F150 with a manual transmission now. I am SICK of driving around having to shift the thing. Of course, my truck is a dog so not as though all that left leg pumping and right shoulder work is creating an engine roar...it just makes the hunk of crap go forward. I wish I had bought an automatic F150 instead.
So, If I buy a 6.1L with an automatic is that just blasphemy? Am I giving up a tremendous amount of performance? If I keep the car long term (as is my plan) will it lose its appeal due to the automatic transmission?
It may be that I am not used to driving a manual that responds more deftly than that of a vice grip on an old rusty bolt. Let me know your thoughts.
So, If I buy a 6.1L with an automatic is that just blasphemy? Am I giving up a tremendous amount of performance? If I keep the car long term (as is my plan) will it lose its appeal due to the automatic transmission?
It may be that I am not used to driving a manual that responds more deftly than that of a vice grip on an old rusty bolt. Let me know your thoughts.
09-22-2006, 05:34 PM
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RE: Manual vs. Automatic
The W5A580 is a very performance orientated automatic and doesn't lose very much acceleration in comparison to a manual. If this was going to use a 47RE, then I would say yeah you would lose a lot, but this one isn't too bad from what I have read. As far as the resale value is concerned, I haven't a clue.
How old is this F150 awsure? If it is anything like my Grandfather's 1985 F150 with a 300 cu. in. (4.9L) I6 four-speed manual, then you're dealing with an old, cheap, piece of crap for a manual. You have to fight it to go into first and second. I have driven a few manuals in my day and I can tell you they have improved a lot! I'd say give it a chance and decide when you go test driving.
How old is this F150 awsure? If it is anything like my Grandfather's 1985 F150 with a 300 cu. in. (4.9L) I6 four-speed manual, then you're dealing with an old, cheap, piece of crap for a manual. You have to fight it to go into first and second. I have driven a few manuals in my day and I can tell you they have improved a lot! I'd say give it a chance and decide when you go test driving.
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09-22-2006, 05:36 PM
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RE: Manual vs. Automatic
For three years in the early '70s, I was half-owner of a '68 Coronet R/T with a 440 Magnum and 3-speed automatic. What that car did on the streets went a LONG way toward financing my college education. (Yeah, including blowing away a couple Hemi Challengers. In the actual Muscle Car Era, those engines weren't regarded all that highly on the streets. Overall, the 440 was far superior.) Personally, I've never owned anything but an automatic since.
09-22-2006, 05:42 PM
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RE: Manual vs. Automatic
ORIGINAL: RoswellGrey
For three years in the early '70s, I was half-owner of a '68 Coronet R/T with a 440 Magnum and 3-speed automatic. What that car did on the streets went a LONG way toward financing my college education. (Yeah, including blowing away a couple Hemi Challengers. In the actual Muscle Car Era, those engines weren't regarded all that highly on the streets. Overall, the 440 was far superior.) Personally, I've never owned anything but an automatic since.
For three years in the early '70s, I was half-owner of a '68 Coronet R/T with a 440 Magnum and 3-speed automatic. What that car did on the streets went a LONG way toward financing my college education. (Yeah, including blowing away a couple Hemi Challengers. In the actual Muscle Car Era, those engines weren't regarded all that highly on the streets. Overall, the 440 was far superior.) Personally, I've never owned anything but an automatic since.
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09-22-2006, 07:03 PM
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RE: Manual vs. Automatic
a few things...i have a heavily built automatic transmission (727)...
in the muscle car era, the manual transmissions were brutal, as ive learned from speaking to several 833 owners. the throw was long, and it is my understand that due to the archaic setup of the internals, they were hard to REALLY powershift. however, modern manual transmissions are far more smooth...more precisely engineered, shorter throws, etc...this allows for better hard shifting and power shifting, so there is less issue with having to jam the trans into gear, as i understand is a problem with the 833 when shifting it hard. the reason that an automatic looses in acceleration, is because an automatic trans car puts less power to the wheels due to the added stress put on the engine by having to turn the increased internal weight of a fluid driven transmission...so there is only so much that you can do to make an auto trans better. the ligher internals of a manual trans yield more whp, so the mtx cars end up being faster when well driven...however, unless the late ronnie sox (RIP) is driving, its hard for an 833 to out perform something like my built 727...but that only applies to old manual trans...that is why there was so much development by race teams like the ramchargers crew to find a way to make an autotrans better for classes like SS/AA.
the case is very different for new transmissions..manual trans (on performance cars) are made much better, and even the best auto trans in the world is still going to cost some power...
is it a crime to buy an auto trans? i say no, but at the same time, i feel that pure performance cars like the viper (and srt10 ram) should not be sold as automatics...the ability to drive a manual trans is a fleeting skill, and i feel that high performance cars should come with an mtx as a sort of right of passage...for a car like a mustang even, with the modern auto trans, the mtx models are still faster...the case is much more severe for weaker cars, such as my stratus...the added weight of the auto trans on the engine REALLY slows it down, and it bothers me at least once a week that i bought the autostick, but i had an ailment that didnt afford me the option of a manual trans at the time.
i did not go with the 833 trans for the demon because of the brutal nature of them, plus i have lots of parts for 727s laying around...and the 833 is an expensive conversion...however, should we get the evo or the challenger in a year or so, it will be a manual so long as its offered.
another thing, in working as a tech, and as a valet, i have found that fords clutches, especially in the rangers, are among the worst....
in the muscle car era, the manual transmissions were brutal, as ive learned from speaking to several 833 owners. the throw was long, and it is my understand that due to the archaic setup of the internals, they were hard to REALLY powershift. however, modern manual transmissions are far more smooth...more precisely engineered, shorter throws, etc...this allows for better hard shifting and power shifting, so there is less issue with having to jam the trans into gear, as i understand is a problem with the 833 when shifting it hard. the reason that an automatic looses in acceleration, is because an automatic trans car puts less power to the wheels due to the added stress put on the engine by having to turn the increased internal weight of a fluid driven transmission...so there is only so much that you can do to make an auto trans better. the ligher internals of a manual trans yield more whp, so the mtx cars end up being faster when well driven...however, unless the late ronnie sox (RIP) is driving, its hard for an 833 to out perform something like my built 727...but that only applies to old manual trans...that is why there was so much development by race teams like the ramchargers crew to find a way to make an autotrans better for classes like SS/AA.
the case is very different for new transmissions..manual trans (on performance cars) are made much better, and even the best auto trans in the world is still going to cost some power...
is it a crime to buy an auto trans? i say no, but at the same time, i feel that pure performance cars like the viper (and srt10 ram) should not be sold as automatics...the ability to drive a manual trans is a fleeting skill, and i feel that high performance cars should come with an mtx as a sort of right of passage...for a car like a mustang even, with the modern auto trans, the mtx models are still faster...the case is much more severe for weaker cars, such as my stratus...the added weight of the auto trans on the engine REALLY slows it down, and it bothers me at least once a week that i bought the autostick, but i had an ailment that didnt afford me the option of a manual trans at the time.
i did not go with the 833 trans for the demon because of the brutal nature of them, plus i have lots of parts for 727s laying around...and the 833 is an expensive conversion...however, should we get the evo or the challenger in a year or so, it will be a manual so long as its offered.
another thing, in working as a tech, and as a valet, i have found that fords clutches, especially in the rangers, are among the worst....
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09-22-2006, 07:26 PM
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RE: Manual vs. Automatic
1 Bad Mirada did a great job of addressing it from a technical standpoint.
Let me try to address it from a practical standpoint.
Will this be your only car or will you have another. If this is your only car, then it will be your daily driver. That being said, do you have
fight traffic everyday during rush on the expressway in a major city or do you live in a small town/community.
If you are in major traffic, get a automatic.....bottom line. If this is not your daily driver, then get a manual.
You know this already but using cellphone and eating burgers with an automatic is bad enough, but with a manual, this just asking for an accident waiting to happen.
Since the Challenger is a car to experience with a manual, you really don't want to experience it in rush hour traffic, day after day and year after year.
You may get a left calf that looks like Charles Atlas.
If you are going to keep it that long of term, you can eventually put in a manual when it is not your daily driver.
Those are just my thoughts. Have fun in it above all else and drive safe.....we want you around on the forum.
Let me try to address it from a practical standpoint.
Will this be your only car or will you have another. If this is your only car, then it will be your daily driver. That being said, do you have
fight traffic everyday during rush on the expressway in a major city or do you live in a small town/community.
If you are in major traffic, get a automatic.....bottom line. If this is not your daily driver, then get a manual.
You know this already but using cellphone and eating burgers with an automatic is bad enough, but with a manual, this just asking for an accident waiting to happen.
Since the Challenger is a car to experience with a manual, you really don't want to experience it in rush hour traffic, day after day and year after year.
You may get a left calf that looks like Charles Atlas.
If you are going to keep it that long of term, you can eventually put in a manual when it is not your daily driver.
Those are just my thoughts. Have fun in it above all else and drive safe.....we want you around on the forum.
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09-22-2006, 09:02 PM
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RE: Manual vs. Automatic
Ever driven a manual Pinto, Patrick? Those are a royal pain in the bum!
Jeremiah, that is why I either use my head set in my car or use the speakerphone. Your right that an automatic is more practical when it comes to a more stressful environment such as the city.
Jeremiah, that is why I either use my head set in my car or use the speakerphone. Your right that an automatic is more practical when it comes to a more stressful environment such as the city.
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09-22-2006, 10:15 PM
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RE: Manual vs. Automatic
The F150 is a '97 with the 6 cylinder engine so it's kind of underpowered as well. I probably will not drive my Challenger but 2-3 days per week so that will probably factor in. I did test drive the Charger that has one of those hybrid (or that's how they pitch it) transmissions. Thanks for all the input...good stuff!
09-22-2006, 10:55 PM
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RE: Manual vs. Automatic
ORIGINAL: awsure
The F150 is a '97 with the 6 cylinder engine so it's kind of underpowered as well. I probably will not drive my Challenger but 2-3 days per week so that will probably factor in. I did test drive the Charger that has one of those hybrid (or that's how they pitch it) transmissions. Thanks for all the input...good stuff!
The F150 is a '97 with the 6 cylinder engine so it's kind of underpowered as well. I probably will not drive my Challenger but 2-3 days per week so that will probably factor in. I did test drive the Charger that has one of those hybrid (or that's how they pitch it) transmissions. Thanks for all the input...good stuff!
Maybe they were saying that because the Charger has an autostick which allows you to select which gear to drive in (up to a point unfortuneatly).
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09-22-2006, 11:34 PM
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RE: Manual vs. Automatic
That's what it was I guess...I am not real familiar with what they were talking about but the guy seemed to be saying that it was an automatic with a "manual" shift mode. Probably the auto stick you mentioned.
