Need to wake up a 440!
 

Hi all,

Just got a 70 Challenger Convt with a 440! Not original 440 car, started out as 318. Any way looks like the 440 is a 1970, low compression motor with stock cam for a 1974 motor. Car is NOT very peppy. Engine has Edlebrock 750 and Performer manifold, dual exhaust.

I'm thinking heads and a cam would wake up the 440, any thoughts?

What were the combustion chamber sizes in 1970 vs 1974?

From what I've read 1970 compression was about 10.2 vs 1974 compression on 8.2. I have no problem using premium gas as it is only driven to shows and for pleasure.

Thanks for you help!

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

im not sure of a few things here...

the engine, is it a 1970 440, or 1974 440? and if its a 1974 440, is it a truck motor?

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

It is a 1974 440. Not sure if pass or truck at this point. I'm out of town till Wed eve, I'll check and let you know then.

Thanks

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

hmm...i know that by 1974, the 440 was long gone from the challenger, but the charger still offered in it 74...it was a bit watered down, to 280 hp, but it is still a buildable 440...any 440 is a good place to start, but finding out what it came from will tell you how potent it was stock...for instance, the 440 found in trucks in 1974 would have only been 235hp

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Here is more info on the 440:
Ø Block #’s 4006630-440-10 dated 2/75
Ø Heads 4006452 believe them to be 81.5cc combustion chamber 2.08 intake/1.74 exhaust
Ø Cam Duration 260, Overlap 34, lift .430, Centerline 110 degrees. I believe this is a very mild cam for my desires.

I am looking to get more pep out of this engine without having to pull it and start over. Heads and cam are a can do, just need to make sure I get the right stuff! Think I need heads with combustion chamber of around 73.5 to raise the compression from 8.2 to around 10.5.

Anyone got ideas?

Thanks

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

well, you can make anything strong with enough money...without touching the bottom end.

first off, before you do this, have you done a compression check?

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

No, compression gauge is shot. I'll see a buddy tomorrow and borrow one.

The guy I got the car from owned a Dodge dealership and he told me he had gotten it from Dodge a number of years ago. When I pulled the valve cover it was clean, like new. The camshaft is a Dodge P4286675. From what I have seen I would imagine that the engine is dead stock.

I'll check compression and let you know.

Thanks!

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Just ran compression check, 120/125 all cylinders. Also borrowed a scope and checked the pistons: flat top, all are clean with minimal carbon. Compression would be about 8.0ish I would imagine.

Guy I got car from said engine was just rebuilt and from pulling the valve cover and looking into the cylinders I believe it. He does not know any of the specs; just “had it done and it ran good” was what he says.

Any thoughts?

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

well, seeing as how im making around 460hp with a 340 pulling around 8.5 to 1, there is definately power to be made with the low compression pistons. the key would be in the head and intake work,and the cam. i will admit that i have ONLY ever dealt with small blocks, but the way that we got my compression up a bit (it was originally around 8 to 1, if not lower [&o] ) was to have a machine shop mill the heads and intake to decrease the combustion chamber size in the heads. find yourself a little healthier cam, and a set of headers, an upgraded ignition (perhaps MSD, etc) and it should liven up that motor a bit. i do not know what "the good low buck intake" is for the big blocks. the good ones for the small blocks are the edelbrock air gap and LD340, as well as the mopar M1.

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Sounds like I am on the right track. I'm looking for a set of Chrysler 906 heads with 73.5CC combustion chambers. This would be 10.0cc less than I currently am running, and hopefully should increase compression by 1 to 1.5 points. Am also looking into cams to pep it up.

I am running headers/dual exhaust and a performer manifold. Can't go much taller with the intake due to hood clearance. Rear gears are 3.23. Will also be looking at at torque converter for a little help.

Thanks for you input!

John



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RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

thats the car?

Wow, for some reason, i thought that it was a fixer upper...it loosk gorgeous!

did the 906 heads come with a combustion chamber of that size, or do you need a set of worked heads? I wish that i could give you more advice on the cam size and brand, but all of my work has been with small blocks, including my friends' cars.

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Yup, that's the car! The car is in good shape and not in need of much at this point. The only issue I really have is the 1975 smog motor that dosen't have much pep. I sold a 67 Camaro RS convt. with 325 RWHP that would run circles around this.

The 906 heads did come with a combustion chamber of 73.5. Even though the engine has very low miles I figgured going to the smaller combustion chamber should boost compression almost 2 points and get me in the 10:1 to 10.5:1 range. More compression, more power if mated correctly. From what I have seen most of the aftermarket Chrysler big block heads are the 82 to 85CC range and I need to increase compression so these will not work. Indy has a slick setup, but they know it and charge accordingly!

I'm in So. Ca. and may try to find some used 906 heads locally and figure out the cost to bring them up to what I want vs. a set of Indy heads. I'm not looking to race the car or high RPM's. Just like to go fast when I hit the gas between stoplights. Rear gears I can't go much more than what I have because I live in the sticks and getting on the freeway at 70 mph I'm just about 3,000 rpm now.

So my plans at this point are to find a set of heads (906 or aftermarket) with around 73cc combustion chambers, replace the cam, and torque converter. Hopefully that will add to the pep and not break the bank.

Thanks for you input!

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

i understand...and my my sponsor is an indy retailer, so i have an idea of what that stuff costs...

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

If you sponsor happens to have a set of heads laying around they don't know what to do with........

Anyhow the search has begun for heads and a cam.

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

wow..its a gorgeous car...and i dont like convertibles...i dont know that your color was offered from the factory (?) but it looks great. is it a slap stick car?

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Thanks. It even looks good with the top up!

Yes it is a slapstick. I'm not really sure of the color, for sure it is not stock. The guy I got it from called it Burgandy, think he is more color blind than I am! Looks like there might be some white pearl in the paint, it really looks bright in the sun!

Like I mentioned before I don't have to do anything to the car, I just feel the need to tinker. After I play with the engine I will want to get a rally dash. But first things first.

I just started to play with a website for the car, not sure if it is up or not but it is 70Challenger.com I'll be posting more pictures and stuff as I figure it all out.

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RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Check out my brother's site. He has done alot with his 440 in his '68 Barracuda. He has all his mods documented with prices and who he got them from. Any questions on tricking a 440, he is a master. Talk about a fast car!!!

https://webspace.utexas.edu/mosley/www/barracuda.html

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

You have a sweet looking '70.

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Thanks. Your brothers site looks pretty good! I just got mine up yesterday and I really prefer working on a car over creating a web site.



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RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

what does it run? and how old is your brother?

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

With that web address, his brother must be located in Austin and probably 32 years of age. How close am I?

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

how did you assume the age?

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Based on the fact that people are getting married later in life and the age of the kids.

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

if you are right, you can go ahead and color me impressed...[8D]

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

He's 38, a UT alumni and lives in the Dallas area. The reason they had kids so late was because they are both Mechanical Engineers that graduated from UT, and decided once they had the money they could afford the process of having kids, hence twins (4 at Christmas time).

As far as the car, it has been an on going project since roughly 1990. With the set up he has in there now, he's not sure what 1/4 he can turn. He's only done some street racing against some guys that timed their 1/4's. There is really no way of saying exactly how fast it is. I guess you can email him and ask. Michael_Mosley@alumni.utexas.net

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Thanks for letting me know. I guess I was 6 years and 3 hours off. Being a mechanical engineer certainly helps as you can get real creative with what you want to do with a car. Thanks for sharing about your borther.

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

If you take the 452 heads, mill/deck/valve job, and a fresh set of valves/springs, the 452 heads will perform just as good as the 906 heads, and still run on unleaded!

I got a .425 lift split 280 duration purple cam, and I never had any real issues with it...

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Hi, Car looks super. I would call Chuck at www.bestmachineracing.com and run things by him. He can help you out. If you need a set of 906 I have a set from a 71. I decided to go with indy 440-1 heads and Chuck at best machine built it. Have another 3-4 weeks getting the wiring and fuel injection set, before firing it up. If you contact Chuck tell him Jim G sent you. He and Pete are the owners and know how to do things right. Any other help let me know. Jim

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

I have a brand new MP 284 284 purple shaft cam if your intrested. $100.00 plus $10 to ship.

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

I'm used to trying to go fast for cheap, so please excuse me if it offends anyone.

The hot, cheap setup for your engine is a set of '67 915 heads with the big valves and a 292 dur, high lift cam. If there's one out there with a 108 lobe center, even better than extra lift. You can get more lift with a set of rockers.

It will wake it way up. Headers and a double pumper too, of course.

You can thank me with a photo of you doing a smokin hot burn out!



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RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

I believe these are the closed chambered heads and they add one point of compression to boot. We ran a set of 67 heads on a buddies 71 Challenger street racer and a 6pak carb set up. Took a lot of coin from the bowtie and blue oval boys.;)

RE: Need to wake up a 440!
 

Yup, 915's are closed chamber and do add a point in compression.

Get the large valve version and you've got a great HP boost.

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