Big block.
 

I like the way the new Challenger looks, and I may go ahead and pick one up...but I'm really not interested in the new "pseudo-hemi" engines.

Does anybody if anybody has swapped an old big block hemi - a real hemi - into an LX?

RE: Big block.
 

ive never seen one. im sure that it can be done, but other than "wow effect", why bother...the 6.1L puts out the same power as the 426 did...

RE: Big block.
 

I didn't know the 6.1 put out 512 HP!

RE: Big block.
 

I'm no Hemi expert. What makes these "not Hemi" to you?

RE: Big block.
 

I agree with Mirada, why go through all the engineering and modifications to fit the big block in, when the performance potential for the 6.1 is plenty for the street. According to published horsepower ratings in Chilton's Repair manual for the 1969 Charger, the 426 Hemi with 2x4 carbs was 425 hp -- which is the same for the 6.1. I never owned a Hemi in those days, but my recollection was that they required a lot of TLC to keep them smooth on the street. The 6.1 seems to be turn-key, ready to go 425 hp without too much tinkering...

RE: Big block.
 

considering the fact that several companies have gotten in the 460 hp range out of a 6.1L, running all stock items, and emissions legal...and where did you get 512 for the 426 hemi stock power? i know that the 426 was under rated, but i dont know about 512...and i know quite a few people running real hemis..


awsure, there is a dispute about the new hemis not being "real hemis" because of the combustion chamber design being a bit different...but considering that mopar groups its engines into wedge or hemi, its definatley not a wedge...so its a hemi.

RE: Big block.
 

It's pretty well known that a factory race Hemi hits 512 on the dyno. Hemi means half a sphere(which is what the old Hemis are), so unless it's round, it's not a hemi!

RE: Big block.
 

a factory race hemi? i thought that they were well above 512...such as the hemi dart engines...i believe that they were known to dyno around 600...however, youre comparing a "Race motor" to a full scale production motor...and even if the "race 426" dyno'd 512, the 6.1L production engine puts down in the 460s...so 50 less hp from a full production motor is pretty good.

RE: Big block.
 

My personal opinion:

1. Use a newer technology Hemi - a better product without all of the expense and headaches of an older Hemi

2. Older Hemi engines needs TLC.

3. Newer Hemi engines have awesome performance.

4. Newer Hemi engines will not have legal emission issues in a 2008 Challenger

5. Okay, for nostalgia sake it is not a true Hemi because the combustion chamber is not spherical in shape but the new Hemi is emission
street lega,l has more performance and reliability, and you do not the added expense of an engine swap and then having more costs because of the
potential problems of maintenance.

For me is is not worth it for nostalogic sake.

Help me understand if I am wrong.

RE: Big block.
 

I always like to look at the low figures coming out, I know how people like to exagerate!

RE: Big block.
 

Alright, I'm not looking to be a smartass or to start a fight with anybody... I'm just wondering if anybody has seen this swap done. I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

But to set the record straight:

The 426 hemi (the "hemi") is the greatest "performance" engine ever designed.

A real hemi made ~550 in stock form, and could easily be warmed up to 650. With a few component changes, 750 was not a problem. I've seen them blown making 800, and on nitro running 1000+.

At 650, this new truck engine would grenade. I doubt you could even get there, because the automatic transmission couldn't take it. A real hemi block can take unlimited output and stay together.

A real hemi has adjustable rockers and a spherical chamber. A real hemi has two valves and is not compromised for emissions. A real hemi was the first auto engine made with 6 bolt mains.

A real hemi needs "TLC," because it needs to be tuned by somebody who knows what they're doing. But they can be tuned to handle any changes. Try making any minor changes to the new engines, and the ECU will have a fit. You better like the stock performance, because you can't change the calibration.

Nostaliga? It's not about nostaligia. It's about running the greatest engine ever made. It's about speed. The new engines are just slightly modified 4.7L's. They're just throwing out (and disgracing) the hemi name for marketing purposes. The engineers within Chrysler knows there's no comparison to a real hemi.

I've built wedge engines that put out more than the new engines, and I've built a real hemi. I also worked on the design team of the "new hemi." If you think these hokey new engines have "awesome" performance, you have never driven a hemi. If I wanted just any new non-descript, cookie-cutter engine design, I'd buy a Ford.

What I DO like is the way the new Challenger looks...We just need to figure out how to put a hemi in it.

[sm=icon_ladiesman.gif]

RE: Big block.
 

Okay, I see you have only had 3 posts on this forum and maybe you have been monitoring this forum for a while I do not know,
but with regards to starting fights on this forum.....well this is the wrong forum. That was not my intent of my other reply.

You didn't leave enough information to decipher why you wanted to do the swap to being with. I was just guessing nostalgia, but I was wrong.
Sounds you like the performance of the older Hemi's and you want more horsepower.

Obviously, if you are an expert with these engines then upgrading or maintaining them is not an issue with you. I am glad we have an expert
who has designed and built Hemi engines on this forum. I am sure there will be many questions that come up that you can answer.

For me if I wanted a Hemi that bad, I would put it in a old project Challenger but that is just me.

When the 6.1L is available, that is all I need for use on the street.

If you have the time, inclination, and money to do the engine swap, I think that is great.

Just one favor I ask of you........please keep us posted and show pictures of your progress.

Enjoy our forum.

RE: Big block.
 

I used to have an old e-body, but you have deal with the horrible suspension and handling and the rust, and trying to find parts... Having a new vehicle design with the old engine - to me - would be a dream come true.

When 2008 rolls around, I'll post a picture. Ha.

Thanks for the welcome.

RE: Big block.
 

I know what you mean. I used to have a 73 Challenger and it had rust problems even after I painted it. I hated torsion bars also.

I am excited to see your dream come true.

Please post many pictures.

Ride the Challenger passion.

Great to have you here.

RE: Big block.
 

so...any proof of this helping to design the new hemi?

i was born at night, but it wasnt last night.

i would think that someone who must have an engineering background, especially mechanical engineering would know a little more about the potential of the engines that he builds...

RE: Big block.
 

There is a few things you need to understand Blackflag. First of all, you complained that a true HEMI wouldn't be compromised for emissions. The HEMI Magnum (the 5.7L, 6.1L, 6.4L) had trouble passing the emissions, a "true" HEMI design won't be able to pass. That is one of many things that killed it.

Secondly, you complain that the output isn't at 550hp as the 426 was. The comparison that Patrick listed was one which I often site, was performed by either MT or C&D. They put the 6.1L on the dyno and the only difference in HP output was .3hp, that is it. Remember that the 6.1L is significantly smaller. Just the new 6.4L (392 cu. in.) is supposed to produce 525hp & 510 ft-lbs of tq. That leaves 34 cu. in. left to spare to increase the hp output up to your magical number 550. The rumored 6.6L is rumored to be able to produce 600hp. This engine is no slouch. The original mass produced Chrysler HEMI couldn't touch this engine (I'm refering to the original small block HEMI from the 50s).

Thirdly, the 4.7L is not related to the HEMI. It is on a completely different block with a different head design. It is not named as a HEMI but instead the Powertech engine.

Fourth, of course the 545RFE transmission would blow at 650. If it was designed for this level of power, they would have used it on the V10 in the Ram instead of the 48RE. If they dropped in an engine that that level power they would offer a transmission that could back it up.

Fifth, the second thing that killed the HEMI was its massive premium price. Building such an engine would still cost so much money it wouldn't be worth it. The HEMI Magnum is a practical HEMI. It is mainstream enough that it is both cost effective, yet it can blow away most of its competition without trying.

Fifth, if you want a big block HEMI, then just drop one in and stop whining about the HEMI Magnum. The HEMI Magnum is one of the best engines on the road today, if it isn't good enough for you then fine, just don't try spoiling our fun. Comparing the HEMI Magnum to the Modular engine is an insult that is completely uncalled for.

RE: Big block.
 

Is that really so unbelieveable? Somebody has to do it. Proof? I don't know...I worked on the 3rd floor of JTE/PROC under Bob Lee.

Yeah, everybody is aware of the potential. It's fine. But it's not the same potential that the 426 had/has. Is that really in dispute?

RE: Big block.
 

no..but some of the comments you made, compared to my real world experience, make me wonder...

for example, ive never heard of anyone in the automotive world, who knows whats going on, use the term "nitro" unless they mean nitromethane, and nitromethane hemis are making a great deal more than 1000hp...

RE: Big block.
 

Please teach me. [sm=dontgetit.gif]

1. That wasn't a complaint, it was an observation. The 426 was not compromised for emissions, like the new engines. It's a perfect thoroughbred.

2. That's fine. And the LS7 is fine, too. So are a lot of other engines. Truth is, Ferrari makes the finest engines in the world. But none of them are the 426 hemi, are they? And I don't see any of those engines powering everything from daily drivers to circle track to dragsters. You really think the new "truck" engine could power a dragster? (Moreover, dynos aren't accurate down to .1 Hp, so that doesn't really mean anything.)

3. The whole 5.7 project was started to address all the mistakes/shortcomings from the 4.7. Small changes, and larger, but basically the same concepts in both. And the names that the marketing folks dream up have nothing to do with reality. "Powertech?" Then some joker decides to resurrect the most sacred of Mopar names, some kid who couldn't pick a Hemi out of a lineup. It's not engineering that dreams this stuff up.

We actually told marketing to get real when they wanted to put "SS" on everything, not knowing that's the Chevy mark. That's how knowedgeable marketing is.

4. Point is - they don't need to put in a different trans, because they know the engine could never even get there. What's the torque limit of the 727?

5. So you're saying the new engine is cheap? That's a good point. They're not exactly making it the best they possibly can, are they? Not like the 426 or the modern-day BMW engine.

5. Ok, sorry to rain on your parade. Just stop calling that engine a hemi. (It breaks my heart to say it, but the only American engine that I would consider "one of the best on the road today" is the LS7.) Chrysler hasn't made "one of the best engines on the road today" since 1987 when they stopped selling the slant six.

[sm=smiley19.gif][&o]

RE: Big block.
 

You got me there! I probably should have said 1000+. Oh, yeah...I did. (They start out around 1500 or so.)

Why all the hostility in this forum??

RE: Big block.
 

I liked Jeremiah's post a lot better. I thought things were pretty friendly.

You guys are angry, or insecure about your engines, or something... Weird. I think I'll be moving along now...

RE: Big block.
 

have a good one.