Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

Enjoy!...

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=44565

Maybe this will wet your pallette!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...9/CIMG1071.jpg

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

Wonder what is under that hood? lol

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That is sweeter than an over-ripe banana!

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Very nice pictures. Thanks for sharing that bored out!

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

A few official pictures & some information...

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/30/c...r-super-stock/

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

It would be nice for Dodge to release a version/package for people interested in performance over fluff. I don't think a manufacture has done that since the mid 90s with the mustang GTS. Then again I'm not sure what they could cut for weight, maybe radio delete, smaller wheels, lower gears?

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

Vid posted on LX:

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...t=CIMG1074.flv

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

not to seem skeptical, but are there any sources more official than lxforums and autoblog? who presented that car at SEMA? mopar?

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I really can not stand much more. I think I just my burst.

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so, i commented in the other post about this...autoblog says that mopar is presenting it, but i cannot find any backup to that..?

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

If you don't think the 392(from now on Im talking cubic inches) will be offered in the Challenger, YOU NEED YOUR HEAD EXAMINED!

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

It might not be a matter of if I will need it, it might be more a case of if it can be offered. As I have said before, from what I have read the 370 (6.1L) was having enough trouble passing emission regulations in its 69.7 hp per liter set up (or 1.15 hp per cubic), increasing the hp that much for such a small displacement boost will make it even more a challenge to pass the emission regulation tests. Also as Patrick explained, they might be a little uneasy about adding an engine that will not be too far behind the Viper.

I think they should offer it if they can, they just might need to increase the displacement to get this kind of power out of it and they might have to make the upcoming Viper even more powerful than they originally intended to do so.

A good observation. I've looked around some more but it seems as though it is hard to come up with a more official source. I hope it is true though.

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

and if you think that DCX is going to offer a vehicle with viper-like horsepower for half the viper price, you need to have a reality check.

unlike many people who will run off to read these nonsensical articles about how the challenger is going to have a 6.4 or 7.1 liter engine. and believe that crap, i have experience in the automotive industry, and i dont buy into useless rumors.

the 392 crate motor boasts 500ish hp, depending on what type of aspiration you chose. the viper has 505hp and costs 85,000 USD. the challenger is supposed to costs 30-50 grand, and if you honestly think that dodge is going to offer a car with 5 less horsepower for 35-55 grand less, youre insane. putting the 505hp 392 in any car, based on similarly powered vehicles and dodges current pricing setup, charging 35-43 grand for a 425hp car, and 85 grand for a 505hp car, the price of the challenger with the 392 would be ridiculous...youre being hopeful, im being realistic.

ive still found NOTHING to back up this article from autoblog. nothing about this on firehouse or DCXM.

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Here are some detail pictures in a thread over on Moparts... Hank says he will try to do others that are requested... nice guy!

XS

Moparts thread: http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/...=0#Post3031343

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

Huh, I wonder why the 426 Hemi was offered, it was only about 30% more money than a 440 Wedge!

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

i wouldnt call 30% an unreasonable amount (in dodges eyes) to compete with the viper...that would make a 45,000 car almost 60 grand...also, if the viper wasnt selling so poorly, dodge would be more willing to offer a car with close numbers and a smaller price, but there are still vipers sitting in lots, waiting for a home.

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

and being realistic is comparing a v10/505hp car to a v8/"500ish" hp car? One engine is hand built (no warranty) the other is not. hence the way higher price tag, plus it's serialized. Not only that but why are you comparing a sports car to a performance car? I'm in your boat about the not trusting rumors part. Then again considering the gt500 was made i'd say the challenger s/s has a pretty damn good chance of being offered at that price. It doesn't matter that the gt500 is factory supercharged it's the point it's rated at 500"BHP" and all car makes tend to play "one uppy" with displacement or hp. Even if the 392 s/s is offered it wouldn't matter if it had 200 more hp than a viper... a viper is still rarer and holds it's value. the new challenger if it's a v6,r/t,srt8,s/s it's going to depreciate by a lot as soon as you drive out of the dealership.

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

alright then...can any of you provide me an instance, throughout the entire history of the automobile, where a company has offered a vehicle in a class even remotely similar to their flagship performance model, while still keeping a large gap in price?

hell, GM found that people were leaning too much toward the f-bodies and away from the corvettes, since the camaro and firebird offered similar performance (sharing the exact same engine and transmission as the corvettes). while the camaro and firebird had a lower advertised horsepower rating, it is very common knowledge that the SS and WS6 models dyno about the same thing as the corvette from the similar years. granted, the vette has the "Vette allure" and will handle better, which is what you are illuding to with the comment about the viper being a sports car, and in a different class, but the bottom line is that the viper sells poorly enough, and until the viper gets the possible 8.4L engine and a bigger hp rating to keep abreast with the Z06, DCX isnt going to risk underselling the viper with the challenger. its pretty obvious that this isnt the 1960s, and dodge isnt looking to offer loyal dodge fans any bargains.

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KILLJOY! I thought Dr Z was going to deliver me one of these in person and hand me the keys! DAMN IT ALL! PAT, you have bursted my bubble! :D Hey fellas lighten up!

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that comment was made because you can't compare the two. yes the viper does sell poorly the main reason is because no warranty.. Even if they do go to the possible 8.4L around the same time or a little later the infamous "bluedevil, or z07" (supercharged 6.2L) will come out. They'll both share similar prices 100k+ but it's already been said if the new z does come out it will come with a warranty... a possible 9 second car right out of the box is kinda impressive the 100k price tag is crazy but the mind blowing part is the warranty.... if the viper came with a warranty i can guarantee sales would increase, that's just common sense. The only reason it doesn't come with one is because the engine is hand built, and if it did it would still hold it's value just like the corvette because a v6 model isn't and won't ever be offered for the two. dodge isn't underselling anything when you take into account that they always out do themselves every 4 years or so it seems. IMHO i'd worry about increasing sales via possibly warranty before i worried about putting out a viper with .4 more liters.. that's just me though.

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Where are you getting this engine volume increase of 0.4? The viper hasnt carried an 8.0L since the change to the new body style.

Warranty information as gathered from Dodge.com. They allow you to compare certain vehicles to others, and it just so happens that the Viper can be compared to the Z06.

2006 Dodge Viper
SRT-10 2dr Coupe (8.3L 10cyl 6M)
Warranty:
Basic 3 yr. / 36000 mi.
Drivetrain 3 yr. / 36000 mi.
Roadside 3 yr. / 36000 mi.
Rust 5 yr. / 100000 mi.

2006 Chevrolet Corvette
Z06 2dr Hatchback (7.0L 8cyl 6M)
Warranty:
Basic 3 yr. / 36000 mi.
Drivetrain 3 yr. / 36000 mi.
Roadside 3 yr. / 36000 mi.
Rust 6 yr. / 100000 mi.

So, I would have to disagree that the lack of a warranty is why the viper doesnt sell well.

I have attatched a screenshot of the warranty information.


[IMG]local://upfiles/4/72B39B47FC394B5CB3F42C751E05683F.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

The warranty isn't the issue. There are a few likely issues. For one, around $85,000 is a lot of money and the price for insuring one is also very expensive. From what journalists have said for years when they compared a Viper to a Corvette, they have always said that the Viper is even difficult for them to drive and they are paid to be able to do this stuff. The Viper is noted for not being as comfortable as the Vette. The fuel mileage is better on the Vette. The Vette already has a loyal customer base.

Frankly, I have never considered the two cars to be in the same class in the first place. The Vette is a heritage muscle/sports car that has been around for years. The Viper in my eyes is a poor man's supercar to rival the performance of Lambos and Ferraris (minus having a mid-engine). The Viper is more exclusive to just performance by having an only manual option (which I guarantee alienates some customers). For around the same price, many people can afford a Mercedes or BMW coupe, which athough are not as fast, they are way more refined and luxurious which appeals to the rich a lot more since many of them are spoiled with having all the luxuries in their cars. These cars are easier to drive and the mentality also gets them. What is more impressive for me to say? To say I have a BMW, Mercedes, or a Dodge? Anyone who answers with Dodge has a worse case of bias than even I have (which is sad). Although these BMWs and Mercedes are no more comfortable, they are more liveable on a daily basis because of the luxuries.

All in all, the Viper's problem is the crowd that wants to have one (the middle class) can't afford one because the Viper is so expensive to build. The only ideas I have that could fix this problem is if they would either A. offer a powerful small-block HEMI (say a 392) as the base model to appeal to those who just want the car for the looks that isn't as expensive but doesn't damage the Viper's supercar image, then offer an update on the power for the V10, or they get rid of the LA/Magnum based V10 and make one out of the current, less expensive to build small block HEMI. Even that wouldn't help that much. Even if the Viper is being made at a loss, it is important to hold on to it because it improves the value image of the Dodge badge.

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I've had 2 Vipers. My 2nd was a '96 Roadster(White/Blue Stripes) which I bought in late '99. Full coverage insurance thru Allstate $68/month in Philadelphia area. I was told they insure them like classics/weekend drives as along as you put less than 7000 miles/yr. Beemers and Benz's are a dime a dozen. Viper is 1 of a kind. If someone asked I wouldn't say I drive 'a Dodge', I'd say 'I drive a Viper'. Semantics, I know, BUT it's a VIPER! Just like somebody who drives a Cobalt drives a Chevy, but if you drive a Vette, you drive a Vette.

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

Porsche was faced with this dilemma when the question was brought up of turbocharging the Boxster. It was quickly dismissed soley becuase of one thing: Exclusivity! Imagine this: Paying 150K for a (then 996) Twin, or paying 75K for a Turbo 986 that would perform just as well for half the price. That doesn't make financial sense for Porsche.

Dr. Z and his boys have a similar dilemma, but lack a lot of the fundamental premises that Porsche was faced with. The Viper, a contender for the Turbo 997, F430, and the Z06 Corvette, does have the same exclusive buyer as it competition. The 500 horsepower Challenger, is a different story. The Challenger will probably appeal to a broader market, because this car is going to tug on a lot more heartstrings, because this is the Challenger people remember (seriously, when was the last time you heard someone say, "Oh, the '71 Deputy. Great Gas Mileage!"), stripes, scoops, and a snarling, brawny V-8.

Moparites like us will go for either, we like going fast, and the Viper's exotic panache means nothing to us. We don't want something to run with the boys on Mulholland, we want something to dominate on Colorado!

Back to Porsche. The Box or the 911 doesn't have the memories on a broader demographic that the Challenger does, so they have to worry about the marketing strategms to make an effective sale. Of course, then again, they don't have Calibers, Strati, or Rams to stay afloat with!

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saying .4 more liters sounded better than saying .1 (8.4L as you stated earlier) more liters is actually going to do anything. Why are you so worried about liters and not concerned that they should work with what they have. 60hp per liter doesn't sound impressive in my head from a v10. Maybe sales are doing so poorly because a z06 is more appealing with, two less cylinders, "1.3L smaller" 400 pounds less and 72hp per liter. plus your paying for history.. in the sports car class the viper is a puppy when compared to a vette. If dodge was so concerned about the vipers poor sales they'd man up and do something about it rather than hiding possible new cars infear of it outselling them in a seperate class in itself.

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the Z06 is the better car, but that only explains the recent poor sales of the viper...sales were bad prior to the C6 even being introduced.

Im not "worried about liters"...you mad esome comments which didnt make sense (like the warranty issues) and I corrected them.

The Z06 is one of the more impressive american cars ever built, but the viper had problems selling long before that, and GM just highlighted the problem by offering a better car for a much lower price.

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RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

are you even reading my posts?

first of all, the warranty information which i provided above states that the viper comes with a 3 year 36000 mile drivetrain warranty. the engine is part of the drivetrain, is it not?

as for the Super stock trim challenger...its a joke, and if it was offered for sale, they would have to have the same limitations that they imposed on the hemi super stock darts and a-body cudas, which prohibits registering them for highway use. as shown, its got wheelie bars, slicks, a roll cage, and is carbureted...so even if it was marketed to the public, it would probably require a professional drivers license, much like was required for purchasing the 1995 and 2000 Cobra R. so if they did market that car, the only people who would be interested in it would be those who want a drag car straight out of the box, and with the challenger specs, it would be a very slow drag car straight out of the box. but ive already explained that in another post....that the comments of it being a "high 9 or low 10 second car" are a complete joke.

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Good points freehemi and kelly. The Viper is pretty unique and as I have said before doesn't really compete against the Corvette. I just think that they will have to do one of three things. A. find a way to offer a less expensive model without losing the preformance or exclusiveness of the Viper (the best small-block HEMI available with more power than the 8.3L currently produces) and upgrade the V10 significantly in power. B. cut down on production numbers. Or C. except the Viper as a car that will bring in a loss. I'm more in favor of A personally.

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I have heard that Viper may have over 600HP and if that is the case then then it would be easy to have a 500HP Challenger without a marketing conflict.

Here is a interesting Canadian article:

October 31, 2006
2006 Dodge Viper gets a near-$30,000 price drop
by Auto123.com,


2006 Dodge Viper SRT10

We recently noticed that the 2006 Viper has received a substantial reduction in price.

The Viper SRT10 Roadster's price has plummeted from $127,000 to $98,400. That's a difference of $28,400, or roughly the price of a new Dodge Charger.

The Viper SRT10 Coupe's new price is $99,900, down from $128,500. The $28,600 price drop is roughly the equivalent of a Dodge Magnum.


2006 Dodge Viper SRT10 (Photo: DaimlerChrysler)
We don't know if the 2007 Viper will keep that lower price, but if you're in the market for a Dodge's king snake, now may very well be the best time ever to get one.

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

I have heard of anything around 600-700hp. I don't know when they are supposed to offer this upgrade, but you're right that it could be done without causing the conflict, if they upgrade the Viper first.

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

i have heard the rumors of the ZC viper having 600+ horsepower with the new 8.4L engine. i have seen the viper mule, and the engine was different.

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if it's such a joke why are you so worried about the vipers sales due to it??? it's sema... of course all cars are dressed up for show. There's no way in hell that they'd offer it as a carb car period.

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

im not worried about anything...my point, as always, is that people take things like the Challenger Super Sport Concept, and run with it, making up rumors that "this is the high performance production challenger", and that only muddles discussions...

"someone told me that the SEMA challenger was going to be a production model"...and those people often dont know enough about things to be able to chose between good and bad rumors.

my whole point is simply to dispell misinformation, so i make damn certain that stuff posted on my site isnt like other sites which claim everything to be set in stone and 100% correct. i see enough people who come on here and say "well i read at so and so's site that the challenger is going to come with glass rims and its true because the guys sisters husband had an affair with a woman who used to date a janitor at the brampton plant, so he MUST know" (an obvious exxageration) and then others here have to explain why it isnt good information...some sites dont care if their site is responsible for spreading bad information, but i do.

kind of like if someone at another site was arguing about viper sales, and said "i read on another site that the viper doesnt sell well because there is no warranty". :eek:

but ignorance is bliss...right?

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Both sides have made good points and have shown reasons why a 500 horse challenger should and will not ever get built. I think that the competition and market will help dodge make that decision. If gm and ford both have 500 horse muscle cars (which ford already does) then I can see dodge offering a beefed up 500 horse challenger to compete, maybe the srt-8 version. I believe that car would be expensive before dealer mark up.

Thinking outside of the box. Why would someone buy a Viper with 500 horse for 100,000 when they can buy a gt500 for 43,000 msrp or 50-60 grand after mark up? I'm sure dodge would rather have customers by a 500 horse chally instead of the gt500!

Either way, it is an interesting debate. I do not like the sema challenger myself, I love the concept and really only care about the street legal chally. I plan on buying the 425 horse version even if a bigger hemi is offered and I can't wait. The concept sounded great on the video when it was being driven off the truck!!!

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the GT500 has a listed MSRP of 41,000 USD. this is slightly more than the price of the srt8 charger, and slightly less than the srt-8 300c price, so we can expect the challenger to be somewhere in that general area. if they do produce a car that has 75 extra horsepower, aside from the fact that the viper has that extra 75 horsepower and costs more than twice as much, it is certainly going to cost a hell of a lot more than 41,000.

dodge has gotten too big for its britches with their pricing tables, and that is exactly why the GT500, dollar for dollar, will crush the challenger...but ill still take the challenger. now, when it comes to the comparison of the 500hp viper (which does come with a warranty, by the way) to the Z06, for the money, i dont know why anyone buys the viper unless they REALLY love the look of it and the exclusivity. the Z06 is a beast, and considering that cost, is a deal.

RE: Sema Challenger S/S Pics, Movies and more
 

Well it depends on what the customer wants. For one thing, the Viper is faster than the GT500 hands down, despite the similar hp numbers. The GT500 is nothing other than a heritage muscle car (I'm not saying that is a bad thing), meanwhile the Viper is a supercar. They are in completely different classes. From what I understand the Viper is around $85,000 here in the U.S.

Okay, I'm confused wih what you are saying Patrick. Are you saying that despite the possibility that the Challenger might be a little cheaper than the GT500, the extra hp for the price will give the GT500 a big enough advantage to beat the Challenger? Or did you mean to say the "Viper" would be beat by the GT500 because although the GT500 is slower, it offers a lot more bang for your buck?

It depends again on what the customer wants. I still do not consider the Vette and the Viper to be in the same class and therefore don't think they should be compared. There are some sources (Car and Driver, Motor Trend) that claim the Z06 is slightly faster, and there are other sources (Road and Track, Consumer Reports) who's times show the Viper is just a little faster in acceleration. In terms of bang for your buck, the Z06 wins hands down. The only thing is they compete in different categories.

Cars are judged by their base models. If you look at what happened to the image of the Chrysler 300C when it released the base model levels, it lost its luxury image. I remember that at first it was considered by some (Kelly's Blue Book and other sources that escape me right now) to be a luxury car until they were made aware of the base models, then it was dropped off that list. A Chrysler 300C SRT-8 can defeat a Cadillac STS-V in terms of bang for your buck (very close acceleration times with a huge price difference), but the 300C SRT-8 isn't considered a luxury car; therefore, it can't compete because it is from anyother car class.

The base model of the C6 is what prevents the Corvette from competing against the Viper in my mind. Also from what I have read, the Z06 has been having some problems when it is modified. If you add too much more power to it, the rear-end shreds. I can't remember who did this comparison (MT, C&D, or R&T) but they had a modified Z06 and it shredded it. The Viper is more expensive because it has heavier-duty parts standard. Correct me if I'