6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch. Should they get jail time
 

The video is shocking: A teenage girl is repeatedly beaten and taunted as other teenagers shout in the background. "Make this 17 seconds good," one yells toward the video's end.

The teens arrested and accused of participating in the videotaped beating engaged in "animalistic behavior,"Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said in a press conference Monday.

"It's pack mentality," he said. "They lured her there to beat her."

Eight teens were arrested, including six girls investigators say pummeled the 16-year-old victim until she was bruised and had a concussion. According to the victim, the girls bragged that they planned to post the beating on YouTube and MySpace.

The 16-year-old was having problems at home and was staying with a friend, Mercades Nichols, 17, in Lakeland, according to the Sheriff's Office.

On March 30 about 8:30 p.m., the victim arrived at Nichols' house on West Calendar Court and was greeted by Nichols and another girl.

The victim went into the bedroom where she was staying, and a third girl, April Cooper, 14, began to insult and threaten her, then hit her in the face several times and slammed her head into a wall, knocking her unconscious, a sheriff's report states.

When the victim awoke, she was on the living-room couch surrounded by six girls who took turns hitting and kicking her while the beating was videotaped, records show. The girl told investigators that the six blocked the door, held her down and beat her for a half-hour. Sometime during the attack, her left ear and eye were injured, authorities said.

Two teenage neighbors, both male, acted as lookouts, the Sheriff's Office said.

After the beating, three of the girls drove the victim to another friend's house, where they told her, "If you go to the police, the next beating will be worse," the report states.

Six girls, a boy and a young man were arrested Wednesday on charges of felony battery and false imprisonment.

They are Nichols, Cooper, Brittni Hardcastle, 17, Kayla Hassell, 15, Brittany Mayes, 17, Cara Murphy, 16, Zachary Ashley, 17, and Stephen Schumaker, 18. All are from Lakeland except Hassell, who is from Mulberry.

Mayes, Hardcastle and Nichols also were arrested on charges of felony kidnapping for forcing the victim into the car and driving her to another location.

All the minors were taken to thePolk County Juvenile Assessment Center in Bartow and were still in custody late Monday, a sheriff's spokeswoman said. Schumaker was released from the Polk County Jail on bail and, in a phone interview, denied being involved.

Schumaker said Monday that he was not a lookout. He told the Orlando Sentinel that he and Ashley were sitting on Ashley's porch next door to Nichols' house when he heard Nichols yelling at the victim. He said he went to get gas and was not present when the victim was beaten.

According to the sheriff's report, the victim told investigators that Schumaker and Ashley knocked on the front door and warned the girls they were making so much noise that neighbors were wondering what was going on."I could be facing a year and a day in jail for something I didn't do," Schumaker said.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,6721790.story

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Beaten cheerleader's mom says video was hard to watch

The teen shown being attacked by several girls will be home-schooled now.

LAKELAND - The 16-year-old cheerleader's face was covered with heavy makeup Tuesday in an effort to hide the bruises she suffered during a videotaped beating deputies said she suffered at the hands of girls she considered her friends.

Victoria "Tori" Lindsay, a student at Mulberry High School, said she learned a lesson from the betrayal, which led to the arrest last week of six girls, one boy and a young man on charges of felony battery and false imprisonment.

"The No. 1 friend is your family," she said in an interview with the Orlando Sentinel at her home in a quiet southwest Lakeland neighborhood.

Tori's mother, Talisa Lindsay, said it was painful to watch the video, which aPolk County sheriff's detective brought to their home days after the March 30 attack so Tori could identify the girls involved. Investigators say they planned to post the video on YouTube and MySpace.


I was flabbergasted," Lindsay said. "I felt completely helpless."

Tori has bruises, a concussion and damage to her left ear and eye, although her family said she is expected to recover. The family would like a public apology from the girls, and they also want a law to protect kids on video and social-networking Web sites. Tori plans to continue her schooling at home rather than return to Mulberry High.

Meanwhile, the grandmother of one of the girls who was arrested says her family is suffering, too.

The beating is alleged to have happened at Mary Nichols' house while she was at work. Since the Sheriff's Office released the video this week, Nichols said, she has been receiving threatening, obscenity-laced telephone calls, and someone scratched her car.

The tape shows Tori being beaten and taunted as other teenagers shout in the background. Nichols' granddaughter, Mercades Nichols, 17, remains in the Polk Regional Juvenile Detention Center along with six other minors arrested in the case. Nichols described Mercades as "really a loving, caring kid."

"This is definitely traumatic to everyone, not just to Tori's family," Nichols said Tuesday.

Tori was staying at Nichols' Lakeland home because she was having problems with her family, the Sheriff's Office and Nichols said.

Earlier Tuesday, Christina Garcia, Mercades' mother, told Today show host Matt Lauer on NBC that she was ashamed of her daughter's actions.

"My daughter should have picked up the phone and called the police. Yes, she did warn this girl not to go in the house, but I do believe my daughter should have called the police," Garcia told Lauer.

Garcia has said that thePolk County Sheriff's Office has overblown the beating.

"First of all, the tape that was released is only three minutes long. That was the worst of it," Garcia said, contradicting the Sheriff's Office report of the incident that indicated the beating was severe and lasted for 30 minutes.

Reached late Tuesday, Garcia declined to comment further.

The trouble began when Tori went into a bedroom and April Cooper, 14, began to insult and threaten her, then hit her in the face several times and slammed her head into a wall, knocking her unconscious, a sheriff's report states. When Tori awoke, she was on the living-room couch surrounded by six girls who took turns hitting and kicking her while the beating was videotaped, records show.

Polk County officials identified the teens involved as Nichols, Cooper, Brittni Hardcastle, 17, Kayla Hassell, 15, Brittany Mayes, 17, Cara Murphy, 16, Zachary Ashley, 17, and Stephen Schumaker, 18. All are from Lakeland except Hassell, who is from Mulberry. Schumaker was released on bail from the Polk County Jail. He and Ashley served as lookouts, the Sheriff's Office said.

Mayes, Hardcastle and Nichols also were arrested on charges of felony kidnapping.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

I watched this with my daughter and I felt a rage like I have not felt in a very long time. I looked at my daughter and said, that's why I made you take weapons training with a concealed carry permit and got you a 17 shot 9mm weapon.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

I am most suprised by the 18 and 20 year old boys. What are they doing around girls that age anyway. Violence isnt an black/white, city/suburb, or even a social class thing but a culture thing. Their lifes may be ruined over a myspace posting?

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

I am not at all surprised and see it far to often. I had to run off a 20 year old when my daughter was the tender age of 15. I do mean run him off and never saw him again. I made him understand the true meaning of my sig..

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

IS THIS REALLY THE PLACE FOR THIS ISSUE?

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

It's under off topic and why are you screaming at us? (all caps)

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

im not surprised...girls are much worse than guys anymore, and this isnt the first case that ive heard of something like this..

and does anyone really need to ask why those guys were there? high school cheedleaders with questionable decision making skills...

they should all stand trial, as adults, as either participants or accessories.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

What I saw of this was on the morning news.
I will not watch the video - wherever it's posted - and bump up the number of "hits" (ironic reference in this case) on the video.

If these - or ANY - morons want to get on you-tube or wherever this is posted, they should swallow a couple dozen Mento's and chug a 2 liter bottle of Diet Coke. This way, their selfish stupidity only hurts themselves and not an innocent victim.

While my outrage from what I saw on the morning news was similar to what Paladin expressed in his posts, I find it hard to justify the use of firearms (which I own and am licensed to carry) to "shift the balance" in a situation like this. That goes beyond self defense. HOWEVER, in light of the overwhelming disparity in making things even, I think the girl would have been justified in grabbing whatever she could find (a lamp, broom, weapon of ANY kind) and using it with deadly intent as she saw fit to get herself out of that house as quickly as possible.
My personal opinion is that the eight "participants" should be tried as adults for conspiracy to commit assault, battery, incitement to riot, and gross indifference for the "lookouts". After the criminal trials, the civil suits should begin immediately to bring the severity of their kids actions home to their parents.

It doesn't take a village to raise a child.......it takes two parents who are responsible and involved enough in their kids' lives to know when to praise and reward, when to say no, and when to administer a good beating - without the threat of the government sticking it's nose into what goes on in the home. That's not abuse - that's the effective use of a parenting tool.

Kids today have no fear of their parents , their teachers, and in many cases the police, and inasmuch have no regard for the consequences of breaking rules. They feel they can simply call Child Protective Services and the justifiably angry parent will be removed from the house and placed under arrest. Too often, a parent administering corporal punishment is arrested for Child Abuse. A beating without good cause IS abuse. A beating WITH reason is "effective parenting". I got enough beatings growing up to know the difference. I wasn't abused - I was punished when I deserved it. I never got into any criminal mischief because I knew facing my Father would be worse than anything the Courts could do to me.
Today's kids use the system to get away with almost everything short of murder. The sickening part is that their parents plead their case for them at times like this.
Makes me want to put each one of these little pukes in a room with six assailants - one at a time - and see what the kids and their parents have to say then.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

That is totally rediculous. These teenagers need to be put in jail for a year so they have a chance to think about what they. Very sad.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

It can all be blamed on poor parenting .
I hope the kids folks sue all the girls families as they are liable for their idiot kids actions.
Ive seen this before in my neck of the woods and it sickens me how kids have become animals,and not young adults.
That are all destine for prison thats why we spend more on prisons than we do on schools the future has arrived..

I say fire up the wood chipper I know a few punks that would make a great mulch for my garden.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Wow, I don't know why people would do that. it's absolutly wrong.

I have a Hi-Point 9mm and a hunting license. I plan to get my consealed weapons permit when i am 21(I think thats the age in Idaho)
And I am going to give 15 of the 30 some odd dolars it is for hunters ed for my 24 year old brother.(TOO MUCH college to take the course and a traumatizng Woodpecker+WristRocket= Dead Woodpecker and sad 8 year old boy event.)Need I Say More) as a Graduation gift in July.

Hey, i'll post a pic of my deer i shot last year on my photobucket.

in the 5 min. mintime you can check out me and my dads 84 Vette.
( My Dad's on a buisness trip and so we can put the final touchs on the stupid vette untill thursday afternoon. and then i go into surgery on tuesday for my tightined hamstrings down at Shriners Hospital in SLC Utah.

For all those who sat and actually read all my post i give you a big[sm=smiley20.gif]

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Hope all goes well brother...

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Im into Saiga clip fed shotguns 12 gauge or 20 or 410 with massive 10 round clips there is nothing I fear when those babies are at arms length.
I can lay down so much fire its unreal. That is if my shoulder holds out.
I highly recommend you guys check Saiga shotguns out I own 5 of then all models includeing a Russian military issue and they are like AK 47 shotguns ,just as tough ,and once broken in its a storm of buckshot.

I used one at my inlaws for a skeet shoot ,it was so funny to see the looks on the guys faces as I blew everything out ot the sky thrown at me includeing my kids Airhog Rc plane that unfortunatley flew into our restricted airspace.

Evil firepower!!!!!!!!!!!!! for little $$$$$$$$$$$.
Its a great zombie protection package and the way things are going we all my need some serios fire power some day soon,the way things are going.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

I use to believe it was bad parenting as well but now, I think they are just born bad....

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

I'm glad that the offenders are in jail. I hope that they stay in there fore a long time and I hope the victim's parents sue the offenders' parents for everything they have. I hope they set an example. My father was an abusive, mean, sadistic bully who frequently badmouthed me, never said anything good about me, and sometimes hit me. One time he started hitting my face so I punched him out. I gave him a big lump on his head. He bothered me a lot less after that and he never tried to hit me again. He ruined my life with all his abuse. He had programmed me to feel worthless, helpless, and undeserving of a good life, even though my IQ is 140. I ended up with chronic & severe depression and was a chronic failure because of him. I tried therapy and antidepressant drugs, but the therapists didn't know anything helpful and the drugs were not a solution or a cure. I cured myself of depression using lots of self help books and good nutrition. After that, I started reading books on how to become successful. Now I have my own business and I'm a lot happier. It's still hard to not think about the people that abused me, but I try my best.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

We have had 3 girl fights at my school in the last month, one of them is posted on youtube even. I was amazed at the beating the girls do to other girls, when guys fight its not like that. The teens that beat up that girl should go to jail for at least a year in my opinion.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

My dad has a XD 40, me the Hi-point 9mm and the same 9mm for my brother in-law.
i can put out 8 rounds in under 5 sec. the Hi-point has vey little recoil because of the weight.
when i'm older i'm planning to get and XD 9 or 40. teh springfield XD's are great handguns.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

They want to act like "big" girls then lets treat them like "big" girls.

OFF TO THE SLAMMER YOUNGINS!!!

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

These days, everyone is a bad parent because the government makes sure of it. "Spanking's not the answer, touch your kid and you will go to jail." It's ridiculous. I think there's a new study out there that even says spaking can cause problems with your sex life in the future! Now that's just to much. If spanking was/is so bad, then why is it now we are having the problems we are with kids and not back in the day when most of the people on this board were growing up? Shootings in schools, never happened, weapons in school, maybe your standard switch blade which was really big, group beatings, maybe if you were being jumped in a gang, but even then that was more my time then in the 50s, 60s or even 70s.

The government needs to butt out and people need to learn that the answer is indeed physical discipline, obviuosly to a point. You get whacked with a belt and get a bruise, on the leg or arm as you are trying to dodge it or something, then hey, that's your fault, if it's excessive and actually on the butt, it is very hard to bruise a butt, or all over the body, arm, etc then the government does indeed need to step in. People know what's excessive, the government doesn't, but they sure won't hesitate to put someone on death row for killing a cop or something like that. Maybe there should be another group that steps in and says that that isn't right, you should only let him go play in the yard behind a tall fence where he can't get out, he shouldn't be put on death row. Stupid.

Sorry, off of that soap box, on to another one. I actually have a Desert Eagle .50AE and a Baby Eagle 40 S&W. They aren't located at my home location because the government, once again, has stated that I'm not allowed to own a gun do to something in my past thanks to the Bradey Bill. It was a DV charge, never touched my wife, never used a gun to threaten her or any weapon for that matter, never even threatened her, but because it was classified as a DV charge, I'm now never suppose to touch a gun in my life. So much for second chances, more like your entire life will be based off of this one thing. Ought to be interesting trying to get another job also.

Anyway, I'm done for the day with the government and discipline.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

I'm against spanking. Spanking = ignorant & abusive parenting. That's like the easy, ignorant way to raise kids without reading any books about how to do it properly or learning anything about child psychology. I think spanking does cause a lot of harm and resentment and psychological problems. The problem is that there are too many idiots who have kids and know absolutely nothing about good parenting and never read any books on it. And then they act like they are gods to their kids and like they know everything. My father did spank me and verbally abuse me and I ended up having lots of psychological problems which ruined my life for a long time and I had to spend years on fixing myself, with great difficulty. I absolutely think parents who beat their kids should go to jail and kids who beat other kids should go to jail. This whole thing of it being OK to beat kids but not adults is a horrible double standard and it has to end. I think if a parent beats his/her kid, the kid should get a weapon and beat the parent. They shouldn't take the abuse, just like you guys wouldn't if someone beat you right now.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Here Mr. B we disagree.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Sorry B but here is where opinion is just that. No proof that what you say is so. I can only go off my own experience at being a father and spanking my boys. not beating if that is your definition. three swats across the bottom and guess what... 2 boys that grow up to be fine young men that are a credit to their community. Law abiding and tax paying. 1 that is 24 and owns 4 cars and his own house. The youngest owns three cars and pays for his rental house. Both workin the Nuclear business and are quite successul at what they do. My father spanked me and my brothers and guess what... we all turned out to be very balanced and successful in the paths we have chose. they in turn raised their boys the same and its looking real good for those kids so far. Their is a difference in spanking your kid and beating them. I have seen the effects of the ( time out) kids and that in my opinion does not work. So you do it your way and I have already done it mine. Mine worked! Yelling and screaming does not work. You have to take time and be a parent, not your kids best friend. You are a parent that is what we do. Theywill find best friends at school. And if reading books gives you the instruction you need to parent... thats because your parents did a lousy job. My father and I are close at the heart, though distance is over a 1000 miles. I have no regrets in how I was raised and for me and my siblings its been very successful.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

I am happy to hear that you came through that and turned you anger and sadness and channeled it into something positive. Sadly many do not turn out as well as you

I have to respectfully disagree, here. One problem is that some parents beat their kids for the tiniest infraction. Instead of using some sort of elevating punishment scale. You get an “F” in class get whooped, missed the bus, get whooped, theirs no real alternative no increasing of punishment. Spanking in my house was for serious infractions, not to relive steam from my parents.

And spankings, mixed with being grounded, the taking away of privileges, etc is good tool these days. The thought of being punishment can be powerful. My grandmother raised 7 kids by herself. Shoe would never whip them right away. She’d wait sometimes day before she punished them. It was a powerful way from a single woman to raise 7 kids by herself.

Theirs a difference between spanking and beating. Unfortunately, too many cross the line. And they should be dealt with accordingly.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Not to turn this into the Dr Phil show, but I can't let Billionaire's comments go without rebuttal.
Let me preface by saying we're ALL former kids here - not all of us are parents though.

Parenting is a tough job - especially when done well. The main goal is to raise your children with love. A parent who loves their child will raise them like they're "loaned to us by God", and that we don't "own" them. After all, when we're done doing our job (no matter how good or bad), God takes them home. So even though they're our responsibility, they're never our property.
When a child is small, they don't understand psychology. They understand the simplest things, so establishing the groundwork for future respect is based there. A spoiled toddler becomes an intolerable child and an unruly teenager. Like building a house, the foundation has to be solid - established early. The child must learn to follow rules, and learn that there are consequences to breaking the rules.

Billionaire, words can hit harder than a fist. Spanking is not abusive. Beatings are. If you had your way, there would be very few taxpayers outside of jail to pay for the care of inmates.
So it's okay for a kid to escalate the abuse? One unnecessary beating should be repaid with a more severe one?
My Father hit me (probably far less often than I deserved), but that doesn't mean he should be in jail. Many times he'd feel bad about spanking me long after I forgot all about it. I can count on one hand the number of times I was spanked by my Father, and I can say the same about my children. I recall hitting my daughter once, and my son a handful of times (usually when he was testing the limits, making disrespectful comments to his mother). At no time was I beaten, and at no time have I beaten my kids.
Spanking is done to address a violation of rules. Beatings are a physical attack without basis or cause. There IS a difference.
I've spanked my kids (I have two - both grown now) when they were small. It was one crack on the @$$ and sent them to their rooms. I've never beaten my kids. I'm not an abuser or a bully.
Spanking is appropriate when no other punishment will be effective. The preferred punishment is to take something away that means a lot to the child. As adults, that "something" is freedom. As teenagers, it may be driving privlages, or access to a cell phone. As pre-teens, it may be "grounding", taking away TV or computer time, or being given extra chores. As younger children - without those privelages - it's spanking.
People who beat their children are abusers. They hit their kids repeatedly, without regard to administering a lesson. Abusers also beat their kids - psychologically - with their words, demeaning them, taking a "lecture" to abuse by changing the intent from correction to personal insults.

No one is doing their kids any favors by failing to administer corporal punishment when it's appropriate. Kids who grow up violating the rules and learning there's no "uncomfortable consequences" for doing so become intolerable and arrogant - like the kids in the video this thread began with.
My Father owed me nothing, but gave me his best effort, his love, consistant and fair discipline, and everything I ate, wore, saw, did and had.
I owed him everything and gave him my unending respect and love in return - despite the spankings (that I'm sure I deserved).
I couldn't imagine raising my fist - let alone a weapon - to him.

Billionaire - You need to find a balance in your approach to this topic. Your views seem to be a justification of your anger and frustration from what happened to you. There IS a middle-ground here. You need to find it.
[b]Books written by (supposedly) perfect people on raising perfect chil

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

It official, ALL of them will be tried as Adults.

8 Teens To Be Tried As Adults In Polk Beating Case

BARTOW - Prosecutors raised the stakes in the videotaped beating of a Lakeland girl with their decision today to try eight teenage defendants as adults and with crimes that include kidnapping.

The defendants, one as young as 14, now face a penalty of up to life in prison.

The mother of one of the suspects said she can't understand the prosecutors' decision.

"Look at their ages, they're not adults," Christina Garcia, the mother of Mercades Nichols, said. "They still have a teenage mentality."

All eight are scheduled for a first court appearance Friday in Bartow to face the kidnap charge and a charge of misdemeanor battery, said Chip Thullbery, spokesman for the state attorney's office in Polk County. Three of the eight also face felony charges of witness tampering.

Tom Scarritt, a Tampa defense lawyer who is not connected with the case, said he wasn't surprised the defendants are being charged as adults but did consider it unusual that all eight face a kidnapping charge.

"There's going to be some ringleaders and some followers," Scarritt said. "There will be different degrees of culpability."

John Trevena, defense attorney from Pinellas County, called the decision "extraordinarily harsh and unfair to the defendants."

"The reality is, despite how the video may sensationalize what happened, that girl was not seriously injured," Trevena said. "But because there is a video, there's political motivation to capitalize on that."

The father of one of the suspects agreed.

"Grady Judd is a big showboater," Robert Schumaker, the father of Stephen Schumaker, said, speaking of the Polk County sheriff. "He's got this blown out of proportion and nobody's happy about it."

Attorneys and others involved in the case are prohibited from speaking publicly about it under a gag order issued Wednesday by Polk Circuit Judge J. Michael McCarthy. McCarthy cited what he viewed as excessive publicity.

The beating on the night of March 30 was videotaped for posting on the MySpace and YouTube social-networking sites, Judd said Sunday. It was meant as retaliation for trash talking online by the beating victim, 16-year-old Victoria Lindsay, Judd said.

The sheriff's office made the arrests Sunday and released a three-minute clip of the video Monday.

Six girls, all students at Mulberry High School, are accused of taking turns beating Lindsay. The three who also face charges of witness tampering Brittni Hardcastle, Brittany Mayes and Nichols, all 17 – are accused of driving Lindsay around afterward and threatening to beat her again if she talked to law enforcement.

She was later dropped off at an intersection.

The other three girls are April Cooper, 14; Kayla Hassell, 15; and Cara Murphy, 16.

Two males, Shumaker, 18, and Zachary Ashley, 17, are accused of acting as lookouts.

Thursday, a spokesman for YouTube said the company is removing copies of the beating video from the Web site as well as any videos that provide personal information about anyone involved in the case.

Darlene Ashley, a Lakeland woman, said Wednesday she received a number of threatening phone calls from people who mistakenly thought she was the mother of Zachary Ashley. Darlene Ashley's phone number and address, along with those of the defendants in the case, had been posted on YouTube.

Robert Schumaker and Christina Garcia told News Channel 8 that their families have also received threatening calls.

"We've been getting death threats here, all kinds of phone calls all the time," Schumaker said. "Our nerves are just shot."

Garcia said, "Oh, we're getting death threats. I called the sheriff's department. When the deputy came out, he told me he wasn't going to do anything for me because my daughter is the suspect and not the victim."

Lindsay tol

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Hopefully justice will prevail. My vote would be nothing less then life in jail. Then they will get to see how tough they really aren't...

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Based on the thread above I decided to post from my Pointman study we did last year:

This week we will talk about how to raise masculine sons and feminine daughters.

I. Fathers should raise their children in fairness.

If there is one verse in the Bible that talks about raising masculine sons and daughters it is:

Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

Ephesians 6:4 is the compass that enables a father to give his children correct guidance toward finding their sexual identities.

I have used the term compass in my posting regarding the Bible being my compass for my morals, value system, and spiritual direction for my life. Without the Bible, it is very difficult to have spiritual truth in your life because you have no reference plane so it very important to know truth so you can discern truth from evil. Sometimes evil disguises itself in partial truths and that is what makes it difficult to see the evil for what it is. As an example, look how many people fell for the false television evangelists over the last couple of decades. Not all are bad but many have been. Enough about that, just make sure that knowing the Bible (God’s truth) by reading it will give you the truth in your life.

With television and programming like MTV, our children see celebrities who distort the differences between male and female identities. The problem today is the tendency to stress the equality of men and women by minimizing the unique significance of maleness and femaleness. This is affecting our children, and a generation of young men and women who are still learning what it means to be a man or a woman. The negative outcome is more divorce, more homosexuality, and more sexual abuse, more promiscuity, more social awkwardness and even suicide and that is why it is such a big deal.

If we will function as the loving heads of our homes, respect, and love our wives, and follow the guidelines of Ephesians 6:4, our children will not grow up to be homosexuals.
Homosexuals are not born, they are made. They are bred because of some controlling contribution from parents and society. Don’t underestimate your role as a parent as models for the behavior of your children especially when they are young. If you are not sure as a parent what constitutes appropriate male and female behavior, your children will also be confused.

Many homosexuals were raised in Christian homes, but either the father was passive and the mother dominant, or the father was so harsh and brutal that the son was driven away.
He then identifies with the tenderness of the mother and then his compass for his life has just been misdirected.

The problem is that between TV and many different cultural messages it becomes very confusing as to what is the definition of a male or female or the proper behavior.

In the gender role development, the evidence points to fathers as having the more important influence, not only in fostering a male self-concept in boys, but in femininity in girls. Mothers do contribute to their daughters’ adoption of the feminine role, but have little influence on the masculinity of their sons. This is exactly why the enemy wants to pull the father out of the family, because when he does that, the family is destroyed. The family often runs amok and becomes dysfunctional.

[i]“Another part of the political agenda of the homosexual movement is the ability to teach homosexuality in public schools, the ability to get a license from the state to marry, to adopt children, and to be counselors of youth groups.
In Provincetown, Mass., the school board has voted to begin teaching preschoolers about homosexual lifestyles and to back hiring preferences for "sexual minorities." Susan Fleming, superintendent of Provincetown schools, said "The whole question is making gays and lesbians, whether through visuals or

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

I agree lock em up throw away the key and set an example to all the other misfit punks out there.
If todays parneting is working so well with no spanking in the house holds why then are we building more prisons than schools.
I live in the Christans bible belt and we have more sickos comming out of the wood work than carters has liver pills.

So lets not be elitests here,and use religion as the key to everything in life.We where given minds so to use them and make our own minds up and not have people make them up for us.

Isnt it sad how the families may loose it all becuse of such selfish acts of a few.Maybe if they had raised their children instead of just having them to procreate this would not have happened.

No disrespect but I am Jewish so I guess Im not included in all this "good christan" talk.
I read the bible but dont force it on any one else.I believe you have the right to your own beliefs,but to justify them to everyone in every way possible seems a bit much.

Dont we all have a right to discussion with out religion always being dragged into the conversation?
There is a time and place for that,its called church?
Same as spanking take it too far and its beating and that isnt right,but a slap on the butt to remind the child of his or her limits is more than justifibale.

This stuff all started to happen as the family unit was told not to spank your child,but its ok to let him watch sex and violence on Tv nightly.
This stuff never happened back in the day to the degree it is now happening.If you want to save your kid pull that TV out of their room and limit time in front of the idiot box,and be a parent not a buddy!

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Man you need to chill. If by being Jewish you think you are not in involved with this discussion you need to look again at where Jeremiah got most of his quotes. straight from the Torah. We as Christians call it the old testament. And yes there is a time for Christian talk or Jewish talk. It should be a part of every conversation you have or areflection of all that you have learned. That is just the attitude that confuses folks outside the faith. So Bill I hope you interject more of your Jewish thoughts and life lessons for us so we can learn from what you have experienced. That is always helpful for us to understand where we stand and our similarities despite the fact of differeces in belief. So join in the convesation and do add your beliefs to it. So who you are and why you believe what you believe is relevent in any convesation. I'm not sure why so many take offense and use the term Bible belt as a put down. i too am in the Bible belt and think its just fine and use the term as a term of endearment. There are good and bad in all forms of humanity. Try to find the good and overlook the bad." Elitest" I think not, look at what Jeremiah posted... no look close. He put words of wisdom and love there. Take it in the form it was given. Not what you think it said with all your preconcieved ideas. Then you will see it for the good it was intended. Find true Christians before you bunch us all together in a group you think less of and talk to them. And you will not see the ideas you are seeing in your mind, but a GOD loving person who is trying to make it on this earth every day and trying to put the teachings of JESUS CHRIST into their everyday life. Not perfect... just forgiven.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

I never knocked or promoted any specific religion - Jewish or Christian. All religions believe in a supreme being, and provide guides/rules to live by.
If we don't bring our religion into our daily lives, and keep/practice it only in secrecy behind the walls of our houses of worship, what good are they?
In Christianity, the parables/lessons were given in agricultural terms so as to transcend the rigors of societal time and change. They were intended to be used forever. If we only do so in our churches/synagogues, then our hearts, thoughts and deeds belong to God for as long as we're there, and to the Devil for the rest of the week.
We need to practice what we preach every day. And we're charged with being good shepherds - ever vigilant in bringing and keeping every sheep into the flock. While I don't meet this charge given to me as a Christian by God nearly as I should, I practice it in my home.
I get turned off by those who preach God to me, and practice everything but for all to see (hypocracy), so I make my focus in my home, where I can more effectively control a smaller environment (my little piece of the world) and teach my family (as I'm charged) to do the right thing. When it becomes a practice at home, it's carried over to the outside to "infect" others.
Walking the walk is much more effective than talking the talk. As you noted, kids are more influneced by what they see rather than what they hear.
I couldn't agree more. The government thinks they know better how to raise our families (and spend our money) than we do. I don't want to get into particulars of my political views or affiliations, so I let this part go at saying that "liberal = permissive", and we need to set a good example for our kids and be a bigger influence to them than some of the garbage we see on TV.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

lear4406, we are certainly not perfect and nor do we claim to be. We are just forgiven. We are after God's own heart.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

!

God gave me a mind to make up my own decisions,right!
Believe what you want but to preach to the wind is just plain out of hand.
To esspecialy use the bible in every topic discusses is also not doing gods work its self promotion,plain and simple.
To point out the obvious isnt an answer either.

We can all agree to disagree isnt that what your all about?I am.

Just be a good human being...

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

How about good people Human beings not just christans......
Isnt there another site for that jibberish.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

jibberish indeed. You seem to have turned this into Christians against the world. You really should go read and comprehind what was written. Not that hard really.. I believe you have an ax to grind or a chip on your shoulder. Either way I will answer you with a yes this is the right site and thread for this type discussion. Off Topic.

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

I'm going to make a few observations. These girls represent the disease I had to deal with while I was growing up and I am frankly tired of it. These kids should all be put into prison and punished thoroughly for what they did. I am appalled at the disgusting things I am seeing people do for a few minuets of fame on Youtube and MySpace. They need to start punishing the recorded examples of abuse that people are preforming against each other to stop it because it is giving even more excuses for people to abuse each other as if they didn't already have enough reasons. What makes me sick is that if half the things on youtube that are being performed on human beings were being done to animals, a stop to it would be a nation wide effort, yet we allow it and call it "freedom of speech." This is in no way a form of speech and not what the founding fathers had in mind with that wonderful amendment. This needs to stop.

My take on disciplining. There is a big difference between spanking and beating. Spankings when performed PROPERLY are the most effective form of discipline I have ever seen in my life. I have seen the results of the "modern" parenting and the results have been that the ones that have the modern forms of discipline are generally the trouble makers because they have no idea of consequences for their actions. I'm already seeing it with my cousins' children. My one cousin spanks while the other time outs and the one that gets time outs acts up over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Right after he gets a timeout he gets in trouble again and what he normally does is he HITs his mother or grandmother. The other one does not hit his parents or his grandmother because he knows what will happen. All my cousin has to do is give him that look and he behaves instantly.

Beatings on the other hand are overboard. Beatings cause psychological problems later and resentment. My Great-Grandfather used to beat my Grandfather and his siblings and they all have/had issues. The grandparents on my other side were spanked, but are very functional individuals and some of the most stable people you will meet. I was spanked and I turned out just fine. I don't drink, smoke, do any drugs, get into any legal trouble, have a college degree, an upcoming job with a respectable organization, get comments about my level of self-discipline being similar to someone who served in the military, etc. My father and I although we don't always see eye-to-eye are very close and he did most of the spankings and believe me, they hurt big time; however, he never once bruised me or even came close to that level.

Billionaire, I'm sorry you didn't have a good relationship with your father. I'm sorry that he was abusive to you, but you have to understand that not all fathers who use carpal punishment are abusive. The fact of matter is many people don't need books on how to parent because they had a good role model for this position in their own parents and they shouldn't be punished for the fact that some parents abuse their position. The fact of the matter is I grew up with kids that had abusive parents that were abusive orally and psychologically that had just as many problems as the ones that were physically abused.

Billbrasky, although I think you have some good points about the TV being a lot of the problem, I don't see the point in complaining about someone else who is doing nothing other than sharing his source of inspiration for answers. I have known Jeremiah now for about 2 and 1/2 years and I can tell you he is not doing this for his own image, he is doing this because this is what he genuinely has found is effective solution and he wants to share what he has found to be effective solution. What is wrong with sharing what he has found to be effective solution? I understand that you might not feel comfortable because you have a slightly different background than many of us do, my adv

RE: 6 girls beat up 16 year old; two boys keep watch
 

Wow, from a beating, to child discipline, to owning guns, to religion, to raising kids by books, to....what can we move on next. Debate is always a great thing, saying my way, religion, belief, is right and yours is wrong will only start a battle and close a thread.

I'm curious as to the person who voted no and why? Probably something else that will start a pretty big battle I'm sure.