brentmannrt09

It could happen! Plans for a Chrysler/GM merger looking much more prominent! Boy would that suck! Talk about rivals trying to get along and play nice! I can't believe we live in a world we we would see such things. But we are our own worst enemy, buying Jap crap and not supporting our own products. I dont want to hear anyone driving a Toyota bitchin cause they cant get a challenger cause they have been (once again) pushed into extinction. BUY AMERICAN! 'nuff said

RLSH700

First of all, GM hasn't bought Chrysler yet; therefore, panicking about something you don't know is even going to happen is a waste of time and energy. Secondly, I seriously doubt that if they would go with a difference name that it would be GMC a truck only division. Thirdly, if this were to go through I think Pontiac, Saturn, Buick, and Chrysler would be far more likely candidates for being axed than Dodge. Remember that the Big Three to a degree have done this to themselves. The only manufacturer that I believe deserves any blame for what has happened is Daimler. Also please watch your language, this is a family friendly forum.

Justinec101

We started buying "Jap Crap" because it became better than "our own products".

RLSH700

After evaluating you list of vehicles, it makes sense why you view things the way you do. You've bought the better quality models from the U.S. that ARE superior to the Japanese equivalent models that will last for the long haul. The reason why things have turned out the way it has is the fact that the Big Three messed up on their smaller models. This is what has caused the image of the Big Three to erode as well as making too many of the wrong models for too long.

brentmannrt09

Sorry about the urban venacular, I'm only reporting what is being talked about on the news TODAY, It is a real possibility, and of course they would keep the name (i hope). I diagree that the Japanese make better vehicles I have driven and owned many vehicles from just about all the major US manufacturers and put on thousands upon thousands of miles with very little trouble. The people that say US auto quality is not equal to the Japanese are usually the same that think the Modern Harleys still dont run and leak oil-its OLD NEWS and it perpetuates the stigma concerning US car quality> But again maybe I just had better luck than most.

RLSH700

That's okay, your learning the ropes yet around here. When I looked at the news earlier I heard nothing about this, now that I've read this, I understand what you are referring to. My advice is call your senators to speak against the forced merger that they are talking about doing.

Well the thing is it matters what you are talking about. Each manufacturer has their flaws including the Japanese despite what some outlets want to say. The issue is the Big Three have messed up on a few models and the mess up isn't necessarily reliability. Take for an example the Ford Taurus. My Aunt has 220K on her 1998 Taurus and has little to no problems in the period in which she owned it, the problem with these cars is they were uncomfortable, badly styled, and got horrible gas mileage for what they were. The competition from Toyota, the Camry from the same period which took the market lead from the Taurus was more comfortable, less controversial in its styling, and more fuel efficient; however, both the I4 and V6 engines had oil sludge problems. My other aunt had one of these models and it happened to her at around 80K. Therefore, there are aspects besides reliability that determines popularity and how well it will sell.

There are segments that the Big Three are superior at no matter what the moronic magazines will say. The Big Three make superior trucks, SUVs, large cars, and sports cars. The Japanese for the last ten years have made better economy, mid-sized cars, minivans (comparing as a whole you have to admit that offerings from GM & Ford were pretty lame in comparison to Toyota and Honda, plus Dodge has lost some of their edge though I believe they are still the best) and jacked up station wagons (excuse me "crossovers"[:'(]). The fact is that although the Neon was a good offering when it first came out, it did have some quality issues that they took too long to resolve and they didn't update it to keep it competitive. The Cavalier was never competitive and I will never understand how anyone could stand those models. The Escort was okay, but the Focus with the initial quality issues damaged the reputation. The Contour was a total flop and it did have some quality issues. The Stratus was a decent car in the first generation in comparison to its competition, but the Germans put little to nothing in it to keep it competitive and was being beaten in the performance category by almost everyone. The Taurus became more an old dog in 2000 with no real engine updates and no performance. The GM N platform cars were severely flawed. The GM 60 degree engines had a lot of problems with blowing intake gaskets, fuel system issues, and electrical problems. They had wheel bearing problems as well. The I4s had either head gasket problems or breaking timing chains depending on the engine. That was one of the biggest mistakes they made. The W-body cars shared some of the problem with the intake gaskets and they also had steering rack issues. The Chrysler 2.7L was a very flawed design with the oil sludge issue.

I'm not saying that the Japanese don't have some of the same problems in the same segments, it's just that at times the Japanese did better because their models in a certain segment were better, but also the Big Three are superior in other segments as well.

brentmannrt09

I gotta hand it to ya RLSH700 you know your stuff! It's just that it bums me out that you never hear much good press about the good american quality vehicles (Ford posting better quality grades that toyota for example- You never hear about that)! I'm a staunch believer in Amercan Made products and it breaks my Heart that the powers that be are giving this country away a piece at a time. Unfortunately I did have mucho problems with a brand new 99 Dakota R/T, (brakes, catalytic converter) and admittedly made me gun shy for a while on the Mopars. Having said that, I really like what Dodge et al has done in recent years, I mean how cool was the Viper and prowler and Magnum and Charger and now the Challenger! GM should look to Mother Mopar for some desing styling cues-the new Camaro aint gettin it! I'm new at all this forum stuff please bear with me! Seems like a real good group here for sure!

Albeeno

Not to be Debbie Downer here, but... The German designed platform that Chrysler "borrowed" from the E-class Mercedes whilst under the thumb of Daimler, and the Aussie designed Zeta platform that the all-new Camaro will be riding on are BOTH being built in Canada.

The only REAL, AMERICAN Muscle Car is designed and built in Flat Rock, Michigan. 1964-Present, Baby! Just to add insult to injury here, but did I mention Mustang is the only convertible being offered in the segment? That's a low blow, I'm sorry.

RLSH700

Well thank you. I appreciate that. I feel your pain on that. I personally give a significant potion of the blame to the press that things are this way. When you hear about oil sludge problems, they always make sure you know about the Chrysler 2.7L (which as I said did have the problem), but the Toyota I4 and V6 problem was more widespread as it covered practically their entire vehicle line-up from 1997-2001; meanwhile, the 2.7L was just the base engine in the 2nd gen Intrepid/Concorde and optional in the Stratus/Sebring sedan. You never hear in the media about how many engines the Big Three have produced that are extremely reliable, you only hear about the failures, yet you never hear about how many engines from German and Japan have the exact same problems.

I'm surprised to hear you had a bad experience with a 1999 Dakota. Perhaps it was because you had an R/T version, because most of the people I know who have those love them and don't want to get rid of them no matter how many miles they have on them.

No problem, we try to be as fair as possible especially to our newer members.

Alright Albeeno, there are a few errors and answers I have to what you have said.

#1. Replace the word "borrowed" to forced into. This was Mercedes forcing dependence on themselves so then they could reap the benefits. Had they remained independent, Chrysler would have been able to produce their own without a reliance on Mercedes inferior parts.

#2. By definition you said "REAL, AMERICAN Muscle Car," Canada is part of North America; therefore, they are still built in America. You never specified which country in North America.

#3. Don't become too proud about the Mustang being "all-American." The platform Ford is using is based off of a Junkuar (excuse me Jaguar) platform. Something to think about further, considering the reputation of Jaguar, which would you rather have as a basis? A Mercedes or a Jaguar? On top of this, the automatic is a design from France. Which would you rather have as a basis? German or French engineering. Also the automatic with the Challenger V6 is a Chrysler design from right here in the U.S. which is more than you can say for the Ford unit, and at least the Mercedes transmission is built in the U.S. as well. The 4.0L V6 is a design from Germany hence the name the Cologne engine. The Chrysler 3.5L featured on the Challenger was designed and built in the U.S. Although I will admit the Hemi isn't built in the U.S. it is built in North America which by definition is American as is the production of some of Ford's Modular engine in Canada. On top of this, the Mustang's V8 line is a departure from the traditional American design by not using the traditional pushrod OHV design and going to a import styled multivalve SOHC & DOHC design on the V8; meanwhile, Chrysler and GM have stayed true to the muscle car heritage by keeping their's OHV pushrod designs on their V8s. Furthermore, who cares if the platform is a Holden when Holden has been a part of GM since the 1930s? On top of that, Australian cars have stayed closer to our heritage than we have, so why not use the designs they have over there.

#4. Ask me if I care that they don't offer a convertible. I don't want a death trap design that will be noisier, leak, easier to break into, adds performance killing weight, can't be used in the winter due to the cold, can't be used in the spring because of the constant raining, can't be used in the summer because of the humidity, and can't be used in the autumn because of the cold weather & wind, while costing more money.

#5. If you want to start trashing Chrysler for the fact that the foolish Germans forced them into using platforms from other companies, start looking at your beloved Ford for a moment. The Fusion is on a Mazda platform. The Taurus/Five Hundred is on a Volvo platform. The Mustang as I already pointed out is on a Jaguar based platform. The Focus came from Europe, and the Escort before it was on a Mazda platform. The only 100% American platform is the Panther platform and before you get excited about the name in thinking it would be with a performance car, that would be the Crown Vics platform from the stone age. The fact is this was done to Ford by themselves; whereas, Chrysler was forced into doing this. At least Dodge's current halo car (Viper) is still on a 100% American platform. In fairness, GM has been the best at designing platforms here in the U.S.

Now if you are done trying trashing other American companies, maybe we can go back to agreeing for our support for our domestic companies.