GM / Chrysler story
10-20-2008, 11:12 AM
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RE: GM / Chrysler story
[/quote]
I truly fear that if the GM deal doesn't go through, it will put Chrysler on the auction block and sell off the company bit by bit.
[/quote]
Perhaps members of this forum should consider buying up the Challenger bit...and then we can build new ones in our garages...............ok, forget it....I think I need some fresh air.............
10-20-2008, 11:58 AM
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RE: GM / Chrysler story
It's actually not a bad idea. If they really break it down some day, an aftermarket company should go around scavenging the original molds of all the classic and muscle cars if anything is left around. I hope we wont get there but it could start-up some cool company and reclaim some jobs.
10-20-2008, 03:53 PM
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RE: GM / Chrysler story
Actually, back in the 80s, Chrysler already had sold off the rights to make parts for the 1970 Challenger. A door handle broke on mine and the replacement came from a company in Argentina. The guy who ordered the part for me said most of the stuff for Dodges of that era came from that company. I dunno if that company is still making parts or even remember what its name was.
10-20-2008, 06:00 PM
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RE: GM / Chrysler story
Then again theres always the potential Nissan (hey... dont the make instant noodles) and Renault alliance... [sm=alcoholic.gif]
Chrysler weighs Renault-Nissan tie-up
John D. Stoll | October 21, 2008
CHRYSLER may join an existing manufacturing and development alliance between Japan's Nissan and France's Renault, according to people familiar with the matter.
But a sale of the Auburn Hills, Mich., company to General Motors Corp. is still its preferred path, according to these people.
Cerberus Capital Management LP, Chrysler's majority owner, is discussing having Nissan, and possibly Renault, acquire a minority stake in Chrysler, these people said.
It isn't clear whether Chrysler or Cerberus also would be asked to purchase an interest in the Japanese and French auto makers in order to maintain a cross-shareholding relationship, they said.
Nissan has taken the lead in talks with Cerberus and Chrysler executives, although any partnership would include Renault as well, one person familiar with the matter said.
For now, Cerberus prefers a deal in which GM takes control of Chrysler. That would reduce the investment group's exposure to the volatile global auto industry.
But, GM has been unable to secure financing for a deal amid continued credit-market worries and the immediate costs of such a merger. As a result, Cerberus is continuing to pursue the option of having Chrysler team up with Nissan.
Chrysler would have a better chance of keeping much of its operations intact in an alliance with Nissan and Renault than in a merger with GM, because of overlapping brands and North American manufacturing plants with the Detroit auto maker.
Some analysts believe more than half of Chrysler's 66,000 employees would lose their jobs it the company is acquired by GM.
Nissan executives believe Chrysler could reap considerable cost savings by cooperating with Nissan and Renault in purchasing, new-vehicle development and production, people familiar with the matter said.
But joining the Franco-Japanese alliance could also tie Cerberus's fate to the performance of three auto makers on three continents, and hand most control of decision-making to officials at other auto makers who may have different goals than Cerberus, these people said.
Nissan isn't interested in taking over Chrysler. Carlos Ghosn, who serves as chief executive officer of Nissan and Renault, has long expressed interest in adding a North American partner to the alliance. In an interview earlier this month, he reiterated that "it would be logical" to add a third partner but said his companies are not interested in mergers or acquisitions. "We are not looking to save anyone," he said.
Renault and Nissan have shown that companies can work together to reduce costs "without threatening the independence of either company," he said. "We know what works and what doesn't (in an alliance), where the synergies are."
An arrangement could thrust Mr Ghosn, who has cultivated an image as a hard-charging cost cutter since becoming Nissan's CEO in 2001, back into the center of the global auto industry's spotlight.
In 2006, Mr Ghosn and GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner discussed a potential alliance that was estimated to be capable of resulting in billions in cost savings. Mr Wagoner, who was pressured into the talks by GM shareholder and billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian, ended up dismissing the alliance as unnecessary and a bad deal for shareholders.
Since the talks between GM and Renault-Nissan broke down, the U.S. auto industry has taken a major tumble, crimping profits for Nissan and sending GM deeper into restructuring mode.
The Nissan-Renault alliance is a rare automotive partnership that has proven successful. Together they rank as the fifth largest auto maker in the world, with a global market share of about 9 per cent.
Earlier this year, Renault invested in Russian auto maker Avtovaz in order to grab more of the fast-growing eastern European market. The two companies also have strong balance sheets. In North America, a Nissan-Renault-Chrysler alliance would have relatively little overlap, with Chrysler strong in trucks and minivans, and Nissan in small cars.
John D. Stoll | October 21, 2008
CHRYSLER may join an existing manufacturing and development alliance between Japan's Nissan and France's Renault, according to people familiar with the matter.
But a sale of the Auburn Hills, Mich., company to General Motors Corp. is still its preferred path, according to these people.
Cerberus Capital Management LP, Chrysler's majority owner, is discussing having Nissan, and possibly Renault, acquire a minority stake in Chrysler, these people said.
It isn't clear whether Chrysler or Cerberus also would be asked to purchase an interest in the Japanese and French auto makers in order to maintain a cross-shareholding relationship, they said.
Nissan has taken the lead in talks with Cerberus and Chrysler executives, although any partnership would include Renault as well, one person familiar with the matter said.
For now, Cerberus prefers a deal in which GM takes control of Chrysler. That would reduce the investment group's exposure to the volatile global auto industry.
But, GM has been unable to secure financing for a deal amid continued credit-market worries and the immediate costs of such a merger. As a result, Cerberus is continuing to pursue the option of having Chrysler team up with Nissan.
Chrysler would have a better chance of keeping much of its operations intact in an alliance with Nissan and Renault than in a merger with GM, because of overlapping brands and North American manufacturing plants with the Detroit auto maker.
Some analysts believe more than half of Chrysler's 66,000 employees would lose their jobs it the company is acquired by GM.
Nissan executives believe Chrysler could reap considerable cost savings by cooperating with Nissan and Renault in purchasing, new-vehicle development and production, people familiar with the matter said.
But joining the Franco-Japanese alliance could also tie Cerberus's fate to the performance of three auto makers on three continents, and hand most control of decision-making to officials at other auto makers who may have different goals than Cerberus, these people said.
Nissan isn't interested in taking over Chrysler. Carlos Ghosn, who serves as chief executive officer of Nissan and Renault, has long expressed interest in adding a North American partner to the alliance. In an interview earlier this month, he reiterated that "it would be logical" to add a third partner but said his companies are not interested in mergers or acquisitions. "We are not looking to save anyone," he said.
Renault and Nissan have shown that companies can work together to reduce costs "without threatening the independence of either company," he said. "We know what works and what doesn't (in an alliance), where the synergies are."
An arrangement could thrust Mr Ghosn, who has cultivated an image as a hard-charging cost cutter since becoming Nissan's CEO in 2001, back into the center of the global auto industry's spotlight.
In 2006, Mr Ghosn and GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner discussed a potential alliance that was estimated to be capable of resulting in billions in cost savings. Mr Wagoner, who was pressured into the talks by GM shareholder and billionaire investor Kirk Kerkorian, ended up dismissing the alliance as unnecessary and a bad deal for shareholders.
Since the talks between GM and Renault-Nissan broke down, the U.S. auto industry has taken a major tumble, crimping profits for Nissan and sending GM deeper into restructuring mode.
The Nissan-Renault alliance is a rare automotive partnership that has proven successful. Together they rank as the fifth largest auto maker in the world, with a global market share of about 9 per cent.
Earlier this year, Renault invested in Russian auto maker Avtovaz in order to grab more of the fast-growing eastern European market. The two companies also have strong balance sheets. In North America, a Nissan-Renault-Chrysler alliance would have relatively little overlap, with Chrysler strong in trucks and minivans, and Nissan in small cars.
10-20-2008, 06:27 PM
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RE: GM / Chrysler story
Just thought I would throw another story out there for everyone.......From the Canadian Press....
Worries grow in Detroit as GM-Chrysler merger talks gain momentum
CP - Sat Oct 18, 12:28 PM EDT
By Tom Krisher, The Associated Press
DETROIT - In the doomsday scenario raising anxiety around the Motor City, General Motors Corp. makes a deal for Chrysler LLC, keeps Jeep and the minivans, and vapourizes the rest of the company.
Tens of thousands of Chrysler's 66,409 employees lose their jobs as cash-desperate GM swiftly cuts redundant operations and sheds unprofitable models. Factories and dealerships are closed, and the lights go out at Chrysler's gleaming corporate headquarters campus in the northern suburb of Auburn Hills.
It's not something Andre Thibodeaux wants to think about. The general manager of Lelli's, an upscale steakhouse and Italian restaurant near Chrysler's 15-storey tower, gets about half his lunch business from the automaker and related businesses.
The eatery, with roots in downtown Detroit and family owned for three generations, already has lost business as Chrysler and parts suppliers have downsized and people eat out less due to economic worries. The loss of Chrysler's corporate headquarters is almost unthinkable.
"I can't imagine moving the building or changing or selling or anything like that," said Thibodeaux. "Auburn Hills in general is built all around that building."
Although it may be unimaginable, industry analysts say GM would have no choice but to slash costs if it acquires struggling Chrysler from its current owner, New York private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP.
Both sides have been talking for months, but the pace recently has increased. Cerberus wants out of the auto business, and as the credit markets have dried up, GM, worried about running too low on cash before the U.S. auto market rebounds, wants Chrysler's currency stockpile.
A person familiar with the negotiations said Friday that the talks have advanced to the point where top executives of both companies have looked at a deal and asked for refinements. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the talks are secret.
In August, Chrysler said it had accumulated $11.7 billion in cash and marketable securities as of June 30. That figure remains around $11 billion, the person said, despite Chrysler's U.S. sales being down 25 per cent through September, the largest decline of any major automaker.
Detroit-based GM is burning up more than $1 billion per month, with several analysts predicting it will reach its minimum operating cash level of $14 billion sometime next year. GM's sales are down 18 per cent, and the company has lost $57.5 billion in the past 18 months, although much of that comes from noncash tax accounting changes.
Chrysler's money pile would help solve GM's cash problem if credit remains unavailable.
Both automakers have had to deny bankruptcy rumours in recent weeks, saying people who won't buy cars from a company that looks like it could go out of business.
According to the person familiar with the negotiations, the deal being discussed thus far calls for Cerberus to hand over Chrysler in exchange for GM's 49 per cent stake in GMAC Financial Services. GM sold a 51 per cent stake in its finance arm to Cerberus in 2006.
Cerberus also would get an equity stake in GM, hoping to get a good return should GM recover when U.S. auto sales bounce back from a serious slump.
Other automakers, including the allied companies of Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co., also are in discussions about Chrysler, the person said. Simultaneously, Cerberus, which bought 80.1 per cent of Chrysler from Daimler AG in a $7.4 billion deal last year, is negotiating to acquire Daimler's 19.9 per cent stake.
GM and Cerberus are still a long way from a deal, according to the person, and GM's board reportedly is cool to the idea.
All that GM, Chrysler and Cerberus have said about the negotiations is that automakers meet all the time. Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli said Thursday the auto sales drop has created an environment that favours consolidation.
It's the uncertainty of consolidation that worries many in Michigan, which has lost more than 400,000 jobs since 2000. Its unemployment rate in September was 8.7 per cent, the highest in the country, as GM, Chrysler and Ford Motor Co. continued to make cuts.
"Mergers usually represent job loss," Gov. Jennifer Granholm said Friday on the Public Broadcasting Service's Nightly Business Report. "We are fearful that a merger would mean more job loss, and that is the last thing we need."
Among the fearful are Chrysler workers and its roughly 3,600 dealers, who already are under pressure from the company to merge with other dealers and scale back their ranks.
"If you end up going from the Detroit Three to the Detroit Two, you don't need as many dealers representing those nameplates," said Dale Early, owner of a Chrysler-Jeep dealer in the Houston suburb of Kingwood, Texas. "With the market the way it is today, you don't necessarily have a need for three major manufacturers," he said.
The upside of an acquisition, industry analysts say, is that it would almost certainly shrink the U.S. auto industry to where it needs to be so the survivors can thrive. Many analysts are predicting that the U.S. auto market will shrink to sales of about 13 million vehicles this year. That's a drop of about three million from 2007, and the decline is more than Toyota Motor Corp.'s U.S. sales last year.
GM would almost immediately make cuts to eliminate duplication, save costs and hoard cash, and that means something like the doomsday scenario would occur, said Jeremy Anwyl, CEO of the Edmunds.com automotive website.
"At the end of the day you're looking at two companies having a much-reduced market share than the two independent companies," he said. "The only way to make that work is some sort of scenario where there's massive shutdowns and job losses."
But GM may see value in and keep other parts of Chrysler, which has several of the industry's most productive parts plants.
While the deal would likely cost jobs, David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, said local economies and labour would still be better off than if one of the automakers were to fail.
"This would be good for the state because whatever happens in combining is going to be a lot less severe than an outright disaster," he said.
Chrysler veterans, though, have seen the movie before with the 1998 takeover by Daimler and the subsequent sale to Cerberus.
"A lot of the things that would come out of something like this, we've already had the anxiety related to it," Early said. "At some point I guess you refuse to feel like the sky is falling because you've already been through some of the dark days already."
Latest Stories from CP
GM acquisition of Chrysler could lead to 'significant downsizing' in Canada - CP - Mon Oct 20, 06:16 PM EDT
General Motors deal for Chrysler said to be coming soon - CP - Mon Oct 20, 10:22 AM EDT
Rotating layoffs to begin at Chrysler assembly plant in Windsor, Ont. - CP - Mon Oct 20, 07:00 AM EDT
Worries grow in Detroit as GM-Chrysler merger talks gain momentum - CP - Sat Oct 18, 12:28 PM EDT
UAW president worried about possible GM, Chrysler merger - CP - Fri Oct 17, 12:06 PM EDT
Latest Auto News
GM acquisition of Chrysler could lead to 'significant downsizing' in Canada - CP - Mon Oct 20, 06:16 PM EDT
General Motors deal for Chrysler said to be coming soon - CP - Mon Oct 20, 10:22 AM EDT
Copyright � 2008 Canadian Press
Worries grow in Detroit as GM-Chrysler merger talks gain momentum
CP - Sat Oct 18, 12:28 PM EDT
By Tom Krisher, The Associated Press
DETROIT - In the doomsday scenario raising anxiety around the Motor City, General Motors Corp. makes a deal for Chrysler LLC, keeps Jeep and the minivans, and vapourizes the rest of the company.
Tens of thousands of Chrysler's 66,409 employees lose their jobs as cash-desperate GM swiftly cuts redundant operations and sheds unprofitable models. Factories and dealerships are closed, and the lights go out at Chrysler's gleaming corporate headquarters campus in the northern suburb of Auburn Hills.
It's not something Andre Thibodeaux wants to think about. The general manager of Lelli's, an upscale steakhouse and Italian restaurant near Chrysler's 15-storey tower, gets about half his lunch business from the automaker and related businesses.
The eatery, with roots in downtown Detroit and family owned for three generations, already has lost business as Chrysler and parts suppliers have downsized and people eat out less due to economic worries. The loss of Chrysler's corporate headquarters is almost unthinkable.
"I can't imagine moving the building or changing or selling or anything like that," said Thibodeaux. "Auburn Hills in general is built all around that building."
Although it may be unimaginable, industry analysts say GM would have no choice but to slash costs if it acquires struggling Chrysler from its current owner, New York private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP.
Both sides have been talking for months, but the pace recently has increased. Cerberus wants out of the auto business, and as the credit markets have dried up, GM, worried about running too low on cash before the U.S. auto market rebounds, wants Chrysler's currency stockpile.
A person familiar with the negotiations said Friday that the talks have advanced to the point where top executives of both companies have looked at a deal and asked for refinements. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the talks are secret.
In August, Chrysler said it had accumulated $11.7 billion in cash and marketable securities as of June 30. That figure remains around $11 billion, the person said, despite Chrysler's U.S. sales being down 25 per cent through September, the largest decline of any major automaker.
Detroit-based GM is burning up more than $1 billion per month, with several analysts predicting it will reach its minimum operating cash level of $14 billion sometime next year. GM's sales are down 18 per cent, and the company has lost $57.5 billion in the past 18 months, although much of that comes from noncash tax accounting changes.
Chrysler's money pile would help solve GM's cash problem if credit remains unavailable.
Both automakers have had to deny bankruptcy rumours in recent weeks, saying people who won't buy cars from a company that looks like it could go out of business.
According to the person familiar with the negotiations, the deal being discussed thus far calls for Cerberus to hand over Chrysler in exchange for GM's 49 per cent stake in GMAC Financial Services. GM sold a 51 per cent stake in its finance arm to Cerberus in 2006.
Cerberus also would get an equity stake in GM, hoping to get a good return should GM recover when U.S. auto sales bounce back from a serious slump.
Other automakers, including the allied companies of Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co., also are in discussions about Chrysler, the person said. Simultaneously, Cerberus, which bought 80.1 per cent of Chrysler from Daimler AG in a $7.4 billion deal last year, is negotiating to acquire Daimler's 19.9 per cent stake.
GM and Cerberus are still a long way from a deal, according to the person, and GM's board reportedly is cool to the idea.
All that GM, Chrysler and Cerberus have said about the negotiations is that automakers meet all the time. Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli said Thursday the auto sales drop has created an environment that favours consolidation.
It's the uncertainty of consolidation that worries many in Michigan, which has lost more than 400,000 jobs since 2000. Its unemployment rate in September was 8.7 per cent, the highest in the country, as GM, Chrysler and Ford Motor Co. continued to make cuts.
"Mergers usually represent job loss," Gov. Jennifer Granholm said Friday on the Public Broadcasting Service's Nightly Business Report. "We are fearful that a merger would mean more job loss, and that is the last thing we need."
Among the fearful are Chrysler workers and its roughly 3,600 dealers, who already are under pressure from the company to merge with other dealers and scale back their ranks.
"If you end up going from the Detroit Three to the Detroit Two, you don't need as many dealers representing those nameplates," said Dale Early, owner of a Chrysler-Jeep dealer in the Houston suburb of Kingwood, Texas. "With the market the way it is today, you don't necessarily have a need for three major manufacturers," he said.
The upside of an acquisition, industry analysts say, is that it would almost certainly shrink the U.S. auto industry to where it needs to be so the survivors can thrive. Many analysts are predicting that the U.S. auto market will shrink to sales of about 13 million vehicles this year. That's a drop of about three million from 2007, and the decline is more than Toyota Motor Corp.'s U.S. sales last year.
GM would almost immediately make cuts to eliminate duplication, save costs and hoard cash, and that means something like the doomsday scenario would occur, said Jeremy Anwyl, CEO of the Edmunds.com automotive website.
"At the end of the day you're looking at two companies having a much-reduced market share than the two independent companies," he said. "The only way to make that work is some sort of scenario where there's massive shutdowns and job losses."
But GM may see value in and keep other parts of Chrysler, which has several of the industry's most productive parts plants.
While the deal would likely cost jobs, David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, said local economies and labour would still be better off than if one of the automakers were to fail.
"This would be good for the state because whatever happens in combining is going to be a lot less severe than an outright disaster," he said.
Chrysler veterans, though, have seen the movie before with the 1998 takeover by Daimler and the subsequent sale to Cerberus.
"A lot of the things that would come out of something like this, we've already had the anxiety related to it," Early said. "At some point I guess you refuse to feel like the sky is falling because you've already been through some of the dark days already."
Latest Stories from CP
GM acquisition of Chrysler could lead to 'significant downsizing' in Canada - CP - Mon Oct 20, 06:16 PM EDT
General Motors deal for Chrysler said to be coming soon - CP - Mon Oct 20, 10:22 AM EDT
Rotating layoffs to begin at Chrysler assembly plant in Windsor, Ont. - CP - Mon Oct 20, 07:00 AM EDT
Worries grow in Detroit as GM-Chrysler merger talks gain momentum - CP - Sat Oct 18, 12:28 PM EDT
UAW president worried about possible GM, Chrysler merger - CP - Fri Oct 17, 12:06 PM EDT
Latest Auto News
GM acquisition of Chrysler could lead to 'significant downsizing' in Canada - CP - Mon Oct 20, 06:16 PM EDT
General Motors deal for Chrysler said to be coming soon - CP - Mon Oct 20, 10:22 AM EDT
Copyright � 2008 Canadian Press
10-21-2008, 01:42 AM
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RE: GM / Chrysler story
As I said before, the absolute WORST thing Daimler could have done was sell Chrysler to Cerberus. Naturally, a financial company would bolt the instant things go bad in the automobile world. I wonder if they deliberately intended to kill off a rival by doing exactly that.
10-21-2008, 05:22 AM
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RE: GM / Chrysler story
this deal goes through and it is going to send michigan into a DEPRESSION not just a real bad recession.....I'm talkin Beans, bulletts and band-aides! hahahaha stock up now!!!!.....50,000 plus out of work auto workers......so that means 50,000 people NOT buying new gm/chrysler cars....how does gm think this is going to help them besides the 11 billion doallars(tee hee tee hee)???
the day the wife loses her job is the day we pack up for the beaches of Miami or Orlando....screw this state......and btw I will be the biggest supporter of FORD you ever saw! hahahaha(man that would suck bad!!!!!! lol)but it would be a cold day in hell I give GM/Chrysler any money after cutting all these jobs!!!!
but in the meantime, lets hope the UAW shoots this down and I get my Challenger on order dammit!!!!! hahahaha
the day the wife loses her job is the day we pack up for the beaches of Miami or Orlando....screw this state......and btw I will be the biggest supporter of FORD you ever saw! hahahaha(man that would suck bad!!!!!! lol)but it would be a cold day in hell I give GM/Chrysler any money after cutting all these jobs!!!!
but in the meantime, lets hope the UAW shoots this down and I get my Challenger on order dammit!!!!! hahahaha
10-21-2008, 05:51 PM
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RE: GM / Chrysler story
The latest rumor Carlos Goshen CEO of both Renault and Nissan will come to Chrysler's rescue. He wants an American company for his global auto empire. That would keep Ma Mopar mostly intact at least compared to GM.
It sucks it has come to this...fine.
My new Challenger road trip driving outfit, see you at Carlisle:
It sucks it has come to this...fine.
My new Challenger road trip driving outfit, see you at Carlisle:
10-21-2008, 06:08 PM
#69
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RE: GM / Chrysler story
UAW are you kidding. Please don't come south with any U N I O N ideas. That is what has killed the US auto industry. UAW is a dieing org. And they only have themselves to blame. Chrysler should of headed South when they were bailed out the first time. There would of been no u n i o n and they would be in alot better shape today. s are for lazy people and single minded in purpose. If I have offeded anyone, I am sorry for that. But if you work for a , I would be looking for another job real soon. They are dinosuars and with their track record... headed for extincsion. Parasites and that is all I have to say.
