I would have to agree with you. From what I have personally seen they are in the 410 to 420 range at the tires totally stock. My Terminator was 367 with the 4.6 where the Shelby uses the 5.4 and a more efficient supercharger. The one big gripe I had with the Shelby was one RLSH700 brought up though. I bought my Cobra for 33K out the door. The Shelby is a full 10K above that(sticker prices). Not sure about such a huge price jump, definitely paying for Shelby's name. The big issue on the Challenger is going to be getting a car for MSRP or less(at least early on). It's been good to see some people have been able to get them at MSRP. Hopefully with the full line up in the Fall prices will be realistic. Back to performance; the Challenger won't disappoint, I'm confident of that. A fella on the Moparts board has an SRT-8 Chrger that he did some bolt-ons to and ran a 12.20@113.8mph. Bolt ons were: Headers(long tube), full exhaust, a PCM tune and CAI. That was worth around 50hp. I laugh when I read the ads saying the Challenger will run the quarter in less than 14 sec. Sure it will, 12.80 is less than 14, lol. The stick car I seen had the trac pak on it with the 3.92 axle. If an automatic Charger will run a 12.9X under ideal conditions, the Challenger advantages are: Slightly lower weight, stick car means less HP loss through the drivetrain plus the gearing is better than the auto car(for drag racing anyway). The new 5.7 will not disappoint either. The 5.7 car should fully be the equal or quicker(most likely) than a GT Mustang.