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Old 08-13-2006, 05:28 PM
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RLSH700
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Default RE: Toyota beating Ford in Sales

I honestly have mixed feelings. The good part of the Japanese manufactures is that they are building their cars here; however, the executive jobs are in Japan. I personally would prefer all jobs stay right here. One of the problems we are facing in general is that our country is following Europe in the process of self destruction. The people living in Europe are not reproducing enough to replace themselves and we are in the process of the same mistake. That is part of the reason why some jobs are leaving. One of the things that made America so wealthy was having the labor force to cover the manufacturing.

I don't agree with the theory that Japanese vehicles sell better because Toyota's are not always more fuel efficient. GM takes the cake for being the most fuel efficient pretty often. Let's put aside the death traps (I mean HYBRIDS) for a second. Yes in compacts the Corolla does get better fuel mileage than the Cobalt or anything else GM has but the department where Toyota makes most of their sales is in the mid-sized car market. The Camry is their best seller yet it gets equal fuel mileage to the Pontiac G6 in I4 applications, and in V6 versions the 3.0L Camry gets only 20/28 city/highway vs. the 3.5L G6 gets 22/32 city/highway. The Grand Prix supercharged version of the 3800 series III matches the 3.0L Camry's mileage. I realize the 2007 version of the Camry gets 22/31 city/highway; however, Toyota has been getting smoked in the category of fuel mileage for years and they keep gaining and the Prius is not the reason why they are gaining.

Now lets look back to 1997 when the Camry defeated the Taurus in sales. In 1997, the 2.2L got 23/30 mpg city/highway auto and 23/32 manua. The Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze 2.4L got 1 mpg lower in the city rating, the Grand Am got 2 mpg better on the highway, the Breeze got 3 better with the 2.0L automatic and Stratus/Breeze manual version got 4/5 better city/highway. Any year you look up the Camry is never the leader in I4 fuel mileage.

Now lets look at the V6 Camry back in 1997. The 3.0 V6 Camry got 19/26. Every version of the GM W-Body got better mileage than that other than the 3.4L 24valve DOHC models -2/0 city/highway difference. All versions of the Regal/Century, Grand Prix, Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze/Sebring/Avenger, LeSabre, Park Avenue, Riviera, 88, Bonneville, Sable, 3.1L versions of the Lumina/Monte Carlo and Cutlass Supreme, 3.3L verisons of the Intrepid/Vision/Concorde, non-SHO models of the Taurus, etc.

The problem is Toyota has a perception of better quality because when they screw up they don't get the focus of having quality problems due to the bias in the automotive press. Both the 2.2L and 3.0L offered in the Camry were known to have some issues with sludging, but did that affect Consumer Report's opinion about the reliability of the Camry engines for the effected years? No. According to them, those engines with that flaw are more reliable than the Chrysler 3.3/3.8 which has a bullet proof reputation, the GM 3800 which has a mostly bulletproof reputation, and just about every other domestic manufacturer engine which has a bullet proof reputation.

Another problem is some domestic cars have very cheap interior. My aunt had a 1999 Solara (which she had sludge problems with) and in comparison to loaded versions of the Grand Prix, Lumina, Taurus, Bonneville, LeSabre, and countless other domestic cars, they are no match. Even Chrysler Sebrings are inferior in terms of the interior. The Grand Prix has "leather" so stiff I would consider making a rope out of it as does the Lumina, both ride like a log wagon. The Taurus interior feels very cheap and shows wear in no time, not to mention the seats have no support and the car also rides like a log wagon. The Bonneville for whatever reason is soft but feels very thin and easy to puncher. The LeSabre's leather feels more like plastic than leather and needs to be a lot more firm. Toy
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