Not exactly sure why you took my post so negatively. I simply reflected back your obvious opinions which proved to be acurate. You are pro UAW. I certainly didn't mean to offend you by suggesting that regardless of your political leanings that Challenger fan are Challenger fans and definitely willing to by each other a round or two. My apologies but it appears that your offense is more due to your interpretation and not by anything I intended.

As for everything else you typed:

Dollar for dollar, American automotive manufacturers pay approx. $70/hour of labour for every car produced. Foriegn manufactuers spend approx. $40/hour. The Hondas and Toyotas are typically preferred (Hence, Toyota's claiming of the no. 1 spot over GM earlier this year) because the cars are better designed and better made (Check consumer reports and JD Power and the like).

I have a BS in Industrial Management from Ga. Tech which required many hours of Macro/Micro Economics, Accounting and Business Theory. In those classes I learned the benefits of a Capitalistic Economy regulated by a Representative Republic system of government. I also studied the effect of a Socialistic or Communist government on a market system such as the failed Soviet , Fascist Italy and Communist Cuba. These are facts that certainly do point to mistakes we are repeating and are leading us down the very same road. The largest contributor to what is happening today goes back to a president who allowed the banking industry to get involved with the speculative stock market instead of the most conservative investiments. That same President also eased the rules governing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack. The rest was accomplished by a society too willing to live on credit. I have worked for the Federal Reserve Bank (6th District), A regional Natural gas Utility and presently work for a Regional Electric Power generation Utility. I have worked for an OEM that supplied parts to the Big 3 and Toyota and Honda. America's Big 3 wanted the cheapest parts. The foriegn company's wanted the best parts made efficiently which, in turn, kept the price down.

As for Labor Un10ns: should an individual who saves lives for a living earn the same wage as someone who installs windshields? Should someone who creates a business that puts hundreds to work make the same as someone who makes beds? To artificially redistribute wealth as the UAW seeks to do inevitably demotivates the productive people and ultimately destroys companies. BTW, go investigate the UAWs financials. Look at what they do with the lion's share of your dues. Then we can talk better about what their real business is about.

People need to be resonsible for their own well being. If most poeple got to take home ALL of their paycheck and not be forced to give a third of it over to the government and Un10ns they'd have enough to afford health care plans, but I also understand that the health industry is currupt with greedy insurance and pharmacutical companies. But the way to fix it isn't to suck money out of the struggling industries to offset. That costs jobs. You fix the competitive nature of the industry so that prices come down and the working wage means something again.

I have contributed to my 401k since I left college making less than $20k a year. Even with the current down turn in the market I will retire with more than enough money to live quite comfortably. I have my own health care plan seperate from my employer and I recieve better care than the company-supplied systems and I am not rich by any stretch of the imagination. It is a lot like apartment renters who do not get renters insurance (which usually cost less than $30/month). They lose everything in a fire and cry foul. THIRTY DOLLARS A MONTH! And as for the Socialistic Health care programs of our foriegn competiters ....They suck. People wait for years for life saving surgeries and treatment because the gov't get to dictate to them when the resources will be available. They flood to America to get the treatment. I would be happy to have my friends in England sign in and give you their first hand accounts of what that is like. Any of you Canadians want to chime in, here?

How would you feel if the Gov't denied you access to the best products or even a competitive choice which is what you are suggesting with comments about Southern protectionism and the manner in which states lure foriegn manufactuers. Personally, I have NO desire to see my Gov't in that role. I would rather see my country's industries competitive on their own without subsidies. The Foriegn companies employ local tax paying Americans who, otherwise wouldn't have a job. They prove to be MORE productive, More efficient and more competitive. They earn a fair wage for the work they do and if they manage their money properly they can purchase homes, cars and can afford health plans. They live within their means, a lesson America has forgotten. We continue to hold our hands out expecting the Governement to take care of us. Every ounce of control you give the Government is a pound of freedom you no longer enjoy. History has taught us this over and over again. And yet we just can't seem to help ourselves.

There really isn't any need for this to errupt into a flame-war. I respect your views and you are welcomed to them. Unfortunately, this duscussion is no different from one about religion and the A word. We won't change each other's mind about anything. I recommend we go back to being Challenger fans. Something we have in common and can agree on.