Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=124937

Wherein We Call a Knockout Before the First Round
By Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit Email


Date posted: 02-26-2008

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Platform sharing. Gotta love it. Car companies spread the cost of developing a crash structure or a suspension system or powertrain over a number of different models that theoretically will appeal to different paying customers. It's economies of scale, as the guys wearing the suits like to call it.

Yeah, cool. But the real benefit of platform sharing is that it allows Inside Line to conduct a comparison test of two vehicles that we have not yet actually tested. In fact, we have not even seen the production version of one of the two combatants, the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro. We have driven a 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8, which you might think would give the reborn Mopar something of an advantage over the reborn bowtie. You, however, would be wrong.

Since we will be using data from the 2008 Pontiac G8 GT we just track-tested and the Dodge Charger SRT8 that we've tested on a couple of occasions to draw some conclusions about the Camaro and Challenger, you could call this a comparison test by proxy. Or you could call it silly. But you cannot call our conclusions invalid. And if you did, we probably wouldn't listen anyway.

So, let's get the make-believe motors running and head out onto the hypothetical highway.

Where the Rubber Meets the Road (or Soon Will)
First, let's take a moment to thank the folks at Chrysler, LLC and its SRT division for making this part of the comparison such a total gimme. So, thank you and good luck with that whole "future" thing.

For all the hoopla and the car's unique bitchin'-ness, the Challenger SRT8 that the company introduced at February's Chicago auto show is essentially a two-door version of the Charger SRT8. Both carry the identical 6.1-liter Hemi V8 — a bored-out version of the standard 5.7-liter motor. Both run the same 10.3:1 compression ratio. Both gulp 91-octane gasoline. Both make the same 425 horsepower at 6,200 rpm and 420 pound-feet of torque at 4,800 rpm. And the coolant capacity? The same 14 quarts. Possibly, you're getting our drift.

Both send all that power through the same five-speed shiftable automatic transmission that carries the same gear ratios and on to the rear axle, which carries the same ratio. Both cars are held off the ground by the same dual control-arm front and five-link independent rear suspensions. Both use Bilstein monotube dampers, front and rear. They carry identical Brembo-designed brakes and are fitted with Goodyear three-season tires of the same size, 245/45/20 front and 255/45/20 rear.

And although the Challenger's wheelbase is 4 inches shorter than the Charger's, Chrysler claims the Challenger is only 20 pounds lighter than the big-brother sedan. At 4,140 pounds and 4,160 pounds, both are heavyweights.

Dodge claims that the Charger SRT8 thunders to 60 mph in "the low-5-second range" and on to a "quarter-mile time under 14 seconds." When last we tested a Charger SRT8, we came away with a 60-mph sprint of 5.3 seconds and a quarter-mile run of 13.6 seconds at 105.8 mph.

Unless Dodge has something very tricky up its sleeve (unlikely), the Challenger isn't going to be much quicker. The company claimed at its Chicago auto show press conference that the Challenger SRT8 could get to 60 mph in 4.9 seconds. We're going to guess something more on the order of 5.1 seconds. This all depends on how strong the particular test engine is and on what surface the acceleration run is conducted.

No matter, for as impressive as its acceleration is, we can't help but think it could be faster if both cars weren't so heavy and didn't wear those big old 20-inchers.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Lie Them
The 2010 Camaro is a little harder to fig

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

lol you talk about bias and fanboys.... theses edmunds guys are terrible drivers and their test have been proven terrible. check out car and drivers articles they say the g8 does 0-60 in 5.4 and the 1/4 in 13.8

car and driver are the guys to go to
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...r_srt8_feature

0-60 in 4.8 what i have claimed all along geez so all these bias edmunds articles need to go moderators(just kidding)
but seriously if you do no see the one sidedness of this article you must be blind. these guys have bad drivers and bad estimates. Well see in a couple of months who is ultimately right the people who bought the car and drive it daily or the guys who drive hybrids and are bias when it comes to comparing 2 company pony cars.

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

sorry about the random g8 facts... i just decided to start it since i know it will come up in the future.

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

and how in the H E -double hockey sticks is the camaro gonna do high 4s if it is surely going to have similar curb weightto the challenger and a smaller output from its motor(400 horses) when they say the challenger will do 0-60 in 5.4? O WOW maybe they are being bias and gm fanboys....what a suprise.

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

I'm getting very sick of the smart remarks of these nobodies. Note to Edmunds, your test IS invalid. You have not tested the Camaro yet nor the Challenger to the degree that you need to. You cannot pull out a crystal ball and instantly declare the Challenger the loser in a comparison when you have nothing to compare to it when you haven't even tested it yet. You're comparison is about as valid as determining what will be a better independent mom and pop restaurant between Mexican and Italian based on your experiences from the Taco Bell and Pizza Hut you already have. Don't write until you actually have the cars in front of you, otherwise it is like determining who will be the better wife based on pictures you have seen on the internet and knowing their cousins.

Another thing, stop ripping off bad jokes and titles of books from failed talk radio hosts for your points. If you can't come up with anything original, then get a different job. If you can't write objectively, and making it extremely obvious that you are trying to tare down a car that is just being released, then don't.

The Challenger is not in full production yet and you can't start bashing the Challenger for being a limited model and play war games with something you don't even know if they are going to use in the Camaro. If the engine is completely what makes this car a king, then explain to me why the Firebird/Camaro FAILED when they were arguably faster and cheaper than the Mustang when they were dropped. Completely invalid and illogical on so many levels. Also, I refuse to buy your numbers after REAL publications that have been around longer than you and have something called a reputation are getting faster numbers for the LX cars than you have. You have a credibility problem and your stale jokes aren't helping either. GET A LIFE LOSERS AT EDMUNDS!

kevin, in the future, if you develop more points after posting the first point, please edit and add those points to the first one. We want to cut back on double posting as much as possible.

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

yea I will stop being lazy............ my apologies[X(]

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

Uhhh... I guess I am a little confused... if kevin (who's postings I have found enlightening and informative, BTW) adds furher developments to his original posts instead of posting anew, I will be having to search through the entire thread to see if anybody has ADDED to thier posts rather than just looking at the latest posts to see... well... the latest posts. :eek:

Am I missing something or ??? Are we trying to save postage? Not quite seeing the point...

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

hes just saying its kinda stupid too keep adding on to a post you made 2 sec earlier, when theirs an edit button. Hes absolutely right, i made those post consecutavely as more information came to my brain. IM AN IDIOT haha[&o]

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

Ahhh... GOTCHA! Would have to disagree on the self proclaimed idiot comment though... think your posts are well thought out and you appear well versed in the technical side of the SRT8. ;)

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

ty ty :)

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

You guys are just too nice to each other.;)

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

I love you too jeremiah dont you worry a thing about that ;) hahahaha

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

I have nothing against kevin, I actually enjoy his posts. I'm just trying to enforce the rules is all. We have a rule against double posting. I never assaulted anyone's talent or intelligence in here besides edmunds, and I don't attack people personally on here that are members has I believe that if you want others to follow the rules, you must yourself follow the rules despite what some other mods do on another forum.

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

you are racist to anyone named kevin! hahah jk... and like i said to mapar you are just trying to enforce the rules.

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

anyways...lol. Yes I honestly cant believe how biased they can be towards a car that is still a ways away until production! They shouldnt be writing these articles until the Challenger and the camero have both been tested throughly. It can just give them a bad reputation!

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

LOL! I think the correct term would be prejudice.;) That's pretty much it, it's my job as a moderator.

Well in my opinion (which some could also claim is bias) it's a small price to pay when you don't have a reputation to begin with. I think of them as being a glorified blog and not in the same category as MT, C&D, or R&T. That is part of the reason why I don't have very much respect for them (plus they can't make a good joke even when they try to rip off someone else's joke).

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

no i meant to say racist... because alot of asians are named kevin.......... so you automatically think im a dumb asian ....... ( sorry im really bored and this might be the worst post i have ever made on this forum)

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

I love you guys!:(:(
:D:D

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

Uh-oh, I think I feel a group hug coming on... [sm=smiley31.gif]

Anyway, I'm with RLSH - these "proxy" tests might make for interesting reading, but they're essentially meaningless - you CAN'T make an objective decision based on stats alone. Not everyone lives and dies by 1/4 mile times alone. Chevy could have made the new Camaro look just like a Yugo and its die-hard fans still would have gone ga-ga over it - seems like Edmunds falls into that same category. Not exactly objective journalism.

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

Hey, so if anybody was having any difficulty coming up with ideas for a unique vanity plate on their new overpriced, overweight, underpowered Challenger I've got a suggestion: 3RDPLACE

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

lol i knew albeeno had to bring his negativity.

here is a little thought for you.
I think if you go by the facts your mustang with the baby v8 in your garage already has 3rd place in its rear. yea the challenger is heavy, its a bit pricey, and it looks 100x better than your more than there are honda accords on the road mustang. the fact is you pay more for better looks and better performance and i would pay the extra 10-15k for the looks of the challenger and performance anyday. the automatic srt8 destroys and I mean DESTROYS the base automatic v8 mustang in every category and the 09 stick srt8 will not even be a comparison and will probably be neck and neck with the shelby with less horsepower and pure engine (no supercharger). the new revamped v8 will probably even beat the automatic stang and the stick will beat the mustang stick. oh and last time i checked ford is losing the most money out of the 3, so who's in third? yea i would stay quiet if i had anything to do with ford. you guys cant engineer a well built motor so you have to supercharge it and call it a shelby to make money to a company that is losing more money than chevy and dodge combined. lets go by the facts and not by fanboyish comments, i think your more mature than that. seriously if you dont know the numbers just ask alot of us future DODGE CHALLENGER owners will inform you.... not someone who says theyre almost certainly getting an r/t then rushes to claim victory for another company while reading bias unrealistic articles.

i think ill put a decal in the back windshield of my challenger so when i beat a stang it says im fat because i eat stangs all day long(fanboy comment for ya)

ps : the only thing good about ford is that they circle their problems<[8D]

[IMG]local://upfiles/909/0F9FB7071AF24AF5B473551E16E68613.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

HAHAHAHA That's awesome kevin...definitely worthy of a post-of-the-day award, if we ever had one. Hey there's an idea!

OK, I'm not here to beat the Ford drum, I'm meerly pointing out an observation.... I would argue that the vast majority of articles/publications that I've read since the 6-February unveiling, has indicated 0-60 estimates of LOW-5's. Estimates being the operative word there...I get it! Now, until you or anybody else out there can prove to me otherwise, I'll continue to take the side of all the various professional automotive journalists versus a bloviating Mopar chest-thumper such as yourself. Sorry man... I know this is gonna come as a huge surprise to you, but my little 4.6 liter V8 Mustang GT does 0-60 in 5.1 (a FACT proven beyond any reasonable doubt) That is consistent with the various "LOW 5s" estimate of the Challenger. So, I don't know how you define the word DESTROY, but I'm guessing our interpretations vary slightly...

In terms of appearance all I can say is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Me and hundreds of thousands of other Mustang customers tend to like the looks of the S197 platform Mustang. I also happen to love the looks of the new Challenger too. At least three years late to the party (as usual) but nevertheless, it's still one helluva sexy car...no question. Another thing I'm confused by is the fact that Chrysler just announced yesterday that they're shutting down all non-essential operations for a period of two weeks this July. Methinks they're not exactly DESTROYING their competition.

As far as I know Ford will still be "in business" this July... [sm=kissykissy.gif]

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

Albeeno, the issue is that they haven't given the Challenger a real test yet. I've already provided the evidence that the other SRT-8s commonly will be found accelerating to 60 in 4.7-4.9 secs, that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the low 5s is not accurate, it's the high 4s. The Challenger by all counts should be faster than that especially when they have the more efficient manual available. Edmunds results have been different from most other REAL automotive sources, and considering their history of Mopar bashing and being taking very childish approaches to it, does not fill me with confidence about their objectivity. Again there are too many other areas where the Challenger outclasses the GT for them to be compared. The SRT-8 compares to the GT500, not the GT.

Shut downs happen once in a while, you know just as well as we do they will be back in business after the two weeks are up so don't get too excited. Remember they have had some supplier issues.

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

thank you i have really had it trying to state the same fact over and over again.... its a proven fact so the discussions over pound for pound speed for speed the srt is better than the gt proven fact. ...end of discussion... and im not a mopar chest thumper... im a truth sayer not a guy in denial about his car... i respect the mustang gt and its performance but to say it can beat or be fender to fender with a srt8 of any kind is rediculous and has no facts behind the statement.

i still love you albeeno:D

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

Hey I think I saw you on the road the other day. O wait... There are only a million Mustangs out there! but for a while there will only be a few challengers in town all big block V8s! ;)

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

overall less challys then stangs like 30-40k per year

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

And not to split hairs, but the 6.1 is not a "big block" either.

RE: Comparison Test, by Proxy: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro vs. 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8
 

bigger than the stangs engine thats for sure... jk i know what your talkin about yankee;)