Paladin06

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=124937

Wherein We Call a Knockout Before the First Round
By Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit Email


Date posted: 02-26-2008

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Platform sharing. Gotta love it. Car companies spread the cost of developing a crash structure or a suspension system or powertrain over a number of different models that theoretically will appeal to different paying customers. It's economies of scale, as the guys wearing the suits like to call it.

Yeah, cool. But the real benefit of platform sharing is that it allows Inside Line to conduct a comparison test of two vehicles that we have not yet actually tested. In fact, we have not even seen the production version of one of the two combatants, the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro. We have driven a 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT8, which you might think would give the reborn Mopar something of an advantage over the reborn bowtie. You, however, would be wrong.

Since we will be using data from the 2008 Pontiac G8 GT we just track-tested and the Dodge Charger SRT8 that we've tested on a couple of occasions to draw some conclusions about the Camaro and Challenger, you could call this a comparison test by proxy. Or you could call it silly. But you cannot call our conclusions invalid. And if you did, we probably wouldn't listen anyway.

So, let's get the make-believe motors running and head out onto the hypothetical highway.

Where the Rubber Meets the Road (or Soon Will)
First, let's take a moment to thank the folks at Chrysler, LLC and its SRT division for making this part of the comparison such a total gimme. So, thank you and good luck with that whole "future" thing.

For all the hoopla and the car's unique bitchin'-ness, the Challenger SRT8 that the company introduced at February's Chicago auto show is essentially a two-door version of the Charger SRT8. Both carry the identical 6.1-liter Hemi V8 — a bored-out version of the standard 5.7-liter motor. Both run the same 10.3:1 compression ratio. Both gulp 91-octane gasoline. Both make the same 425 horsepower at 6,200 rpm and 420 pound-feet of torque at 4,800 rpm. And the coolant capacity? The same 14 quarts. Possibly, you're getting our drift.

Both send all that power through the same five-speed shiftable automatic transmission that carries the same gear ratios and on to the rear axle, which carries the same ratio. Both cars are held off the ground by the same dual control-arm front and five-link independent rear suspensions. Both use Bilstein monotube dampers, front and rear. They carry identical Brembo-designed brakes and are fitted with Goodyear three-season tires of the same size, 245/45/20 front and 255/45/20 rear.

And although the Challenger's wheelbase is 4 inches shorter than the Charger's, Chrysler claims the Challenger is only 20 pounds lighter than the big-brother sedan. At 4,140 pounds and 4,160 pounds, both are heavyweights.

Dodge claims that the Charger SRT8 thunders to 60 mph in "the low-5-second range" and on to a "quarter-mile time under 14 seconds." When last we tested a Charger SRT8, we came away with a 60-mph sprint of 5.3 seconds and a quarter-mile run of 13.6 seconds at 105.8 mph.

Unless Dodge has something very tricky up its sleeve (unlikely), the Challenger isn't going to be much quicker. The company claimed at its Chicago auto show press conference that the Challenger SRT8 could get to 60 mph in 4.9 seconds. We're going to guess something more on the order of 5.1 seconds. This all depends on how strong the particular test engine is and on what surface the acceleration run is conducted.

No matter, for as impressive as its acceleration is, we can't help but think it could be faster if both cars weren't so heavy and didn't wear those big old 20-inchers.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Lie Them
The 2010 Camaro is a little harder to fig

kevin2323

lol you talk about bias and fanboys.... theses edmunds guys are terrible drivers and their test have been proven terrible. check out car and drivers articles they say the g8 does 0-60 in 5.4 and the 1/4 in 13.8

car and driver are the guys to go to
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...r_srt8_feature

0-60 in 4.8 what i have claimed all along geez so all these bias edmunds articles need to go moderators(just kidding)
but seriously if you do no see the one sidedness of this article you must be blind. these guys have bad drivers and bad estimates. Well see in a couple of months who is ultimately right the people who bought the car and drive it daily or the guys who drive hybrids and are bias when it comes to comparing 2 company pony cars.

kevin2323

sorry about the random g8 facts... i just decided to start it since i know it will come up in the future.

kevin2323

and how in the H E -double hockey sticks is the camaro gonna do high 4s if it is surely going to have similar curb weightto the challenger and a smaller output from its motor(400 horses) when they say the challenger will do 0-60 in 5.4? O WOW maybe they are being bias and gm fanboys....what a suprise.

RLSH700

I'm getting very sick of the smart remarks of these nobodies. Note to Edmunds, your test IS invalid. You have not tested the Camaro yet nor the Challenger to the degree that you need to. You cannot pull out a crystal ball and instantly declare the Challenger the loser in a comparison when you have nothing to compare to it when you haven't even tested it yet. You're comparison is about as valid as determining what will be a better independent mom and pop restaurant between Mexican and Italian based on your experiences from the Taco Bell and Pizza Hut you already have. Don't write until you actually have the cars in front of you, otherwise it is like determining who will be the better wife based on pictures you have seen on the internet and knowing their cousins.

Another thing, stop ripping off bad jokes and titles of books from failed talk radio hosts for your points. If you can't come up with anything original, then get a different job. If you can't write objectively, and making it extremely obvious that you are trying to tare down a car that is just being released, then don't.

The Challenger is not in full production yet and you can't start bashing the Challenger for being a limited model and play war games with something you don't even know if they are going to use in the Camaro. If the engine is completely what makes this car a king, then explain to me why the Firebird/Camaro FAILED when they were arguably faster and cheaper than the Mustang when they were dropped. Completely invalid and illogical on so many levels. Also, I refuse to buy your numbers after REAL publications that have been around longer than you and have something called a reputation are getting faster numbers for the LX cars than you have. You have a credibility problem and your stale jokes aren't helping either. GET A LIFE LOSERS AT EDMUNDS!

kevin, in the future, if you develop more points after posting the first point, please edit and add those points to the first one. We want to cut back on double posting as much as possible.

kevin2323

yea I will stop being lazy............ my apologies[X(]

mopar2ya

Uhhh... I guess I am a little confused... if kevin (who's postings I have found enlightening and informative, BTW) adds furher developments to his original posts instead of posting anew, I will be having to search through the entire thread to see if anybody has ADDED to thier posts rather than just looking at the latest posts to see... well... the latest posts.

Am I missing something or ??? Are we trying to save postage? Not quite seeing the point...

kevin2323

hes just saying its kinda stupid too keep adding on to a post you made 2 sec earlier, when theirs an edit button. Hes absolutely right, i made those post consecutavely as more information came to my brain. IM AN IDIOT haha[&o]

mopar2ya

Ahhh... GOTCHA! Would have to disagree on the self proclaimed idiot comment though... think your posts are well thought out and you appear well versed in the technical side of the SRT8.

kevin2323

ty ty