Chrysler: Phoenix V6 engine program still alive
Posted Oct 23rd 2008 2:33PM by Chris Shunk
Filed under: Chrysler, LLC., GM, Nissan

Yesterday, the Rumormill spewed out more bad news for Chrysler: the $3 billion project to design the new "Phoenix" V6 was all but dead. But vice chairman Jim Press says it isn't so.

Press told reporters that the program was moving "full speed ahead" and that prototypes are out in the wild as we speak. There is little doubt that Chrysler needs more efficient V6 engines that can compete with the competition, particularly after spending time with the Dodgeler/VW minivan.

We noted yesterday that either GM or Renault/Nissan already have modern V6 engines, and spending $3 billion to produce something that is just as good or marginally better doesn't sound like a solid plan. And while we believe Press when he says that Phoenix is still on, if a merger happens any time soon, we're guessing future owners won't be interested in investing billions in Chrysler engine programs, unless much of the $3 billion has already been paid for.

 

Could just be the salesman in JP trying to dispell rumors..??

 

I wouldn't doubt that the program is still very much alive. Particularly to clear legal hurdles for a merger or a sale of a company, all ongoing work must continue during any negotiations, lest discontinuation of the activities be interpreted as "collusion" during Justice Department review.

 

I would hate to see it but GM does have a very nice D.I. V6 engine. Just sayin

 

Let's hope this is true.

Urlosingbd, I would say that GM has an adequate D.I. V6 engine. Chrysler has the potential to do much better than the High Feature engine. GM is excellent at making pushrod engines hence why they are using more and more of them in Cadillac, but 4 valve per cylinder designs are their weakness. GM's 3.4L DOHC was inferior to the Ford/Yamaha SHO engine which produced 5-10hp and similar torque with only a 3.2L displacement, the 1st gen Chrysler 3.5L wouldn't be fair to compare to either side in its original design as they had time to adjust.

The 3.5L Shortstar was far inferior to the 2nd gen Chrysler 3.5L as the best the GM 3.5L produced was 215hp & 230ft-lbs of tq while the 3.5L produced 253hp & 255 ft-lbs. Heck the 3.6L in someways could be viewed as inferior.

The GM 54 degree 3.2 V6 used in the first CTS is arguably inferior to the Chrysler 3.2L. The GM 3.2L began production somewhere between 2002-2003 and only produced 220hp & 220ft-lbs of tq with a 10.0 to 1 compression ratio (that's barely a tq advantage over the SHO engine from the early 90s); meanwhile, the Chrysler 3.2L produced 225hp & 225ft-lbs of tq with a 9.5 to 1 compression ratio began production in 1998. And to top it all off the Chrysler engine was more reliable.

Heck the 3.6L in someways could be viewed as inferior. The displacement, a higher compression ratio, a VVT system, they are only matching the 2nd gen 3.5L H.O. and they had 5 years to do better than this. Only now the D.I. does it look this way and it took them nine years to out do Chrysler and look at all the technology it took to accomplish this. If nine year old Chrysler technology is this hard for GM to top, then how long do you think it will take GM to top what the Phoenix engine has to offer? The primary weakness of the High Feature engine is fuel consumption, look at the Mid-sized offerings. The GM 3.6L for 2009 is lower than the Avenger R/T despite having a huge gearing advantage and VVT advantage.

The Phoenix engine has MDS unlike the GM HF, it has the VVT and should have the D.I. The Phoenix could be GM's key to success, besides, the HF is due for an update. Why not drop it like GM has done with their last three 4 valve per cylinder designs that were weak and go with a company with a better track record for doing this right. In the life of one Chrysler engine line, GM has been through four. GM's engine should be the one that is scrapped.

 

Interesting points RLSH7000. Let's see how it plays out.

Looks like Ford is Eco-boosting there V6's which i'm waiting to see how that plays out. Should be out in a Lincoln in 09.

 

Thank you.

Now the Ford's new Cyclone engine impresses me and to put things into perspective, I don't like the Modular V8, the Mondeo Duratech 2.5L/3.0LV6/3.4LV8, the Essex V6 3.8L/3.9L/4.2L, the Cologne SOHC V6 (found in the current Mustang). This is the first engine they have built that was THEIR design that I'm very impressed with in my life time. The other engines they have introduced in my lifetime were okay, but nothing like this in my view.

The Eco-boosting is looking like it will be one of the best engines in the market. I'd love to see how the Phoenix engine and these two would do against each other.