Anybody else Ticked?
 

Is anybody else as pissed as I am?

I've waited 30 years for a new Challenger... then it gets here and it's bigger, longer, and heavier than it should be. 1000 pounds more than the real Challenger, and 700 more than a Camaro/Mustang. They took my beautiful Challenger and turned it into a fat kid.

It looks great, I'd love to get one... but how can I when there will be a Camaro with more power and less weight?? The "Charger" fiasco was bad enough...why did they have to screw up the Challenger?

Pissed.

Thoughts?

[:@]


[:o]


[&o]

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

definatly hear you man and on that thought i'm pissed too. At least we get a really good looking car though. Yeah it blows me away how they didn't try to cut weight in any way it seems.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

I can get used to the weight if the transfer is good. I'm no chevy fan, but they made the ImpalaSS 94-96 @ 4400 pounds. I have sold converters to many with only bolt on mods and they see some amazing 60" times. I doubt that Chevy ever intended to build a 4400 pound car that would take the same year Vette off the line and get better ET's.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Nope.. I'm good.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Nice choice, How about times change and safety features add weight. How about car co. about to go belly up and they work with what they got. We have hashed this over and over. Go get you a Camaro if you think thats what you need! Some folks even like the extra weight because it will ride better:) But if the speed and quickness is it... then why not wait and see what the times are before you complain. There is not one road test out that uses a Challenger and gives stats. We were the heaviest pony car in the 70s and we did just fine. All articles I have read it ranks as one of the all time best 70s car to own.;) So let the chips fall and get what you want, if its not the Challenger then so be it. Alot of others in line to get one.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

It's heavy but not super heavy... Look at the weight on the Vette. The Mustang is lighter but it's smaller too. This is a bigger car.

It looks like it has nice safety features, can handle well, and has *plenty* of power. Frankly, I can't wait to get my hands on an SRT with a manual.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

I'm not pissed and even if its a 1/4 second slower than the fastest car is it not still a fast car? Wait and see......

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

This has been an issue since the concept car was introduced in 2006... and you're just NOW getting po'd about it? :eek:

If you're really that "pissed"... as lear has mentioned, there are plenty of other alternatives for you to explore. Please do.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

I'm an old guy and used to have a 70 Challenger for a family car. Yes it was bigger than a Carmaro but they couldnt keep up. My chevy friends used to say they could put a fast chevy togrther out of a junk yard. I told them if it wasent for chevy's there wouldnt be junk yards.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Heavy car, means I get to mod the hell out of it to kill chevys.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

The facts are this; I own a 1971 Challenger with 440 six pack. On a certified scale with half a tank of fuel it weighed 3650lbs(nobody in it). The new Challenger will weigh 4100 - 4200lbs. The difference is 450 - 550lbs. Does that make it light? NO. Is it 1000lbs heavier? NO again. I also have a 1967 Camaro with a 427, set up as a COPO style clone. It weighed 3420lbs on the same scale. So the Camaro's have always been a little lighter due to being a smaller car. The same will hold true today. I believe the new Camaro will come in around 3700-3800lbs. Lighter than the Challenger(just like the originals) but still heavy. As somebody stated a few posts up safety equipment and other mandatory things are responsible for most of the increase over the years. Even if you took an original 1970/74 318 Challenger it would weigh in at 3400lbs +. Still not 1000lbs.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

I don't care how heavy it is, just give me the 6.4L 525 hp 392 and call it a day. I would rather have a big sled with lots of HP, anybody can make a small light car go fast but when you can get a big beast to go fast and handle like they are saying it will, then you have something speical.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

The weight doesn’t bother me that much. It’s the fact that we are days away from May and there is no information. The 08 guys don’t know anything, and that’s not right. The rest of us waiting for the 09’s are getting irritated that there is no pricing or ordering info and we still don’t know what options the cars are really going to have…

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Bottom line the Challenger is an awesome car. Would I like to take 500lbs out of it? Sure. But how could I be pissed that such a sweet car is coming out? Many of us will always wish that it were lighter, faster, more powerful, less expensive, nicer interior etc. But that will always be the case.

RE: Anybody else angry?
 

I'm not angry almost all cars weigh more now, check the weight of a Honda Accord with one ten years ago. Thirty years of safety, emissions and comfort have added weight, most of which is federal mandated stuff. They did not turn the Challenger into a fat kid but a 1971 GTX.


Edited: for family friendlyness forum

RE: Anybody else irritated?
 

Alright, first of all, we don't use language like that on our "family friendly forum." There are lots of good alternatives such as irritated, ticked off, mad, etc. It reflects more positively on yourself if your vocabulary consists of more than 4 letter words (or "-ed" variations).

Now to the issue at hand, the weight is a common complaint, the thing you have to understand when comparing the current Challenger to the classic is that people are demanding that cars are made to be as safe as possible while being as affordable as possible. Now we not only have the Gov't cash tests but insurance companies crash tests. If the manufactures want to be able to pass all of these test, they have to build up the structure. The potential danger they run into if they don't increase the safety to perfection level standards is lawsuits. The fact of the matter is even if someone is doing something absent minded with a car and get themselves killed in the process, many greedy family members then want to blame the car company for the compact not being able to withstand having a head-on collision with a semi with a combined speed of well over 120mph. There are ways of doing this that will not way as much; however, the problem is these routes really cost quite a bit of money and on top of this some of them are still questionable on if it is really as structurally sound. That is why it weighs so much.

Another point to help you feel better about the situation. Thanks to improvements in transmissions, engine's efficiencies, much better tires, and other improvements that have come out since the 70s, these cars despite being heavier and producing in some cases less tq & hp, they are still faster than their 70s counterparts.

RE: Anybody else irritated?
 

Forgot to answer the main question: No, I'm not ticked off. In fact I drove right next to an SRT-8 with M-plates yesterday. Love the car, it has awesome presence on the road. I am content to wait it out but I guess I can drive my '71 while I'm waiting so that's a bit of a consolation. The problem now is too much speculation(it's slow, this isn't good, that isn't good) right now. When the cars get out into circulation(Which won't be long now) then the FACTS will come in. Let's judge it by that. I can already say the car won't be a disappointment in my opinion. The car looks beautiful to me in person. Give it a chance.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Who gives a rat's behind! I own one of the first 2005 Mustang GTs off the assembly line. Guess what....it seems like everyone owns one now, not even a hot item anymore. Going to be the same with the Challenger eventually, the thrill and newness (if there is such a word) will eventually wear off. Get a life people.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

There still won't be half as many challengers on the road. Also, it looks more similar to the retro 70s cars than the new camaro and mustang do and people haven't gotten tired of seeing those after 40 years.

And no I'm not pissed. I could care less if the challenger is faster than the camaro and the mustang, it looks 100x better. If the only thing that matters to you is the speed you can get one of the others or a corvette.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

The newness will were off after awhile but it will be a year or so and I will still enjoy driveing it then .I own a 07 shleby and get thums up and looks all the time and thoses car have ben out for years . The challenger will have more room so it will be a much better trip car .

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Yea, I'm ***** that I don't have one in my garage yet!!:D

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Dodge skimped on every product development cost they could. They reused the Charger chassis instead of creating a new, lighter one. They reused the charger interior instead of making one like the concept. They use the same paint colors as the Charger & 300 instead of buying extra painting equipment for high impact colors. So all you get that's new is the body. And also Dodge loaded the Challenger up with many off-the-shelf options which cost them nothing to develop. Maybe they got a bit of extra profit by sticking in all those options.

By the way, speaking of interiors, the Cadillac CTS interior in cream + brown trim is fantastic looking and the car only costs between $33 to $37 thousand. It's the best interior I've seen lately. Challenger would've been a better, more completely new car if GM had built it. Challenger's interior looks more like a cheap $20K car. But then again GM probably would have made the body look ridiculous.

In order to bring the Challenger up to the full potential that it should've had, you'd have to take apart the whole car and find ways to lighten it and rebuild it, then put in a whole new custom interior to make it look a lot like the concept or something cool, and then put on a high impact paint job. The it'd be the way it really should be. I'm looking forward to seeing some people do that and it'll probably end up in hot rod magazine or summat. I would like to do that myself too.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Doing what you wanted the Challenger would not be available another two years. It would have cost Chrysler developement monies it dosn't have.

RE: Anybody else irritated?
 

Okay, I guess you would prefer it if they had done the Challenger like the way they did the Viper. Whole new platform, different engine that was at the time not used in anything else, shared pretty much nothing with any other car they had on the market since they didn't make any RWD cars at the time. The problem is you're going to pay for it big time. The Viper's dash is inferior to the Challengers and has not changed in forever, the radio head routes back to the 90s, the Viper is small on the inside, and magazines for years complained about how it is not driver friendly by its characteristics and being uncomfortable. The Viper academically is just a platform with a huge engine in it.

In comparison, the Challenger is getting some new seats, a similar BUT NOT THE SAME dash, a pistol grip shifter that has not been used on any other cars yet, an outstanding stereo system with brand new technology being utilized in it, is getting a seriously upgraded 5.7L that the sedans are yet to receive, a recently upgraded manual transmission which the sedans are also yet to have, etc. And yet your not satisfied? Who cares about having a whole new line of paint, the Charger has already had some classic style paints that we all know will eventually offered on the Challenger. Besides, what is wrong with sharing paint colors? The more you make the Challenger have completely all new stuff, the worse the price is going to be. "Off-the-shelf" options as you put it have development costs that many times are still being paid off with as time goes on, you should know that in running a business. Also remember that on some things, Chrysler has had to pay royalties to their ex-wife so it is not a "free lunch."

Cadillac vs. Dodge? That does not make any sense whatsoever, Cadillac better have a better interior since they are a luxury-performance division. Dodge is a non-luxury performance division. The CTS is meant to compete against BMW 5 Series and Mercedes E-Class, the Challenger is meant to compete against the Mustang and Camaro. Have you even seen the cars GM has been making for the last 20 or so years? GM's interior has been absolutely horrible until recently and it is not consistently good throughout all of their models yet. The new Malibu, the Cadillacs, the new Buicks, and a few others have been doing well, but Pontiac as a whole is still very generic. On top of this, many of GM's interiors although significantly more visually appealing still consists of

RE: Anybody else irritated?
 

You pretty much hit it on the head there. Had they started from scratch on the challenger it wouldn't be available for another 2 years and you'd be paying a lot more.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

But the Challenger isn't supposed to be a trip car. It's not supposed to be a family car. A Charger is not supposed to be a 4 door. A Challenger is supposed to be light, fast, impractical, and overpowered.

Let me summarize all the responses:

In 1970: somebody who primarily wanted a good-looking car bought a Mustang or Camaro. Somebody who wanted the fastest thing on the road bought a Challenger.

In 2009: somebody who wants the best looking car buys the Challenger. Somebody who wants the fastest, best handling thing on the road buys a GM.

A person who used to be a Challenger customer is a GM customer now. I hate to say it...because I was Mopar or Nocar. But not at 4100 lbs.

Yes, it was cheaper for them to make it on the Charger platform. Yes, it was quicker for them to use the old, cheap parts from other cars.

I would have waited two more years. Would have paid more. And does anybody here really believe the Challenger is not heavier than it should be? It anybody really arguing 4100 is the proper weight for a sport car?? The new Cadillac is 4300 lbs....with 550 hp.

Sad.

Disappointed.

And, yes...pissed.

[:@]

[:o]

[&o]

RE: Anybody else irritated?
 

The Challenger's purpose is to compete against the Mustang and what was the thing that made the original Mustang significant, it was a practical coupe that could also be a family car when needed. A roadster with no back seat like a Corvette, Crossfire, Viper, Porsche, and other cars like this are the ones that are light, impractical, and overpowered. The Pony cars are still somewhat practical.

You're listing of the 1970 to 2009 is purely subjective to a person's taste in styling. You're also making an illogical argument on the basis that the Camaro is already automatically faster when it hasn't even been released yet. We don't even know for sure what engines will be offered in it yet. Also, you are assuming that Dodge is not going to up their engine offerings before long. Do you really think that Chrysler will honestly leave the 6.1L engine completely alone after they just updated the R/T with technology that the 6.1L doesn't have yet in the coming years if not replace it with one of their other engines? It isn't over until its over. The Challenger is yet to have been tested thoroughly to give us specific acceleration time numbers for us to make judgment calls on for the automatic let alone the manual version. On top of this, the Challenger IS the fastest pony car by having the highest top speed of the available pony cars to test in the 170 range as the GT500 is in the mid to upper 150 range.

Cheap parts that were used once to build a European luxury car as opposed to building a lowest bidder non-luxury Australian design. Right! '

The fact of the matter is that is what the market dictates these days. A car must be crazy safe or else they will get into trouble. As I already explained, the only other way around this would be to use other materials that are lighter like Carbon Fiber or maybe Aluminum (as they did in the Prowler), but those two are a more expensive route and would not be worth the extra cost.

And stop using vulgar language.

RE: Anybody else irritated?
 

Well if you would have waited 2 more years then wait!! Those of us who like what they've produced can get it now. And maybe in 2 years they will have refined it and given it more power to your liking. The retro muscle car market is here and now and who knows, it might be over in 2 years. Yeah there's muscleheads who'd buy a 500hp V8 if gas was $12 a gallon, but the whole idea of these cars is to mass market them. Putting out the challenger even this late in the game is a gamble.

Also, had they started from scratch on a new platform, there would have been the inevitable first year problems which are mostly avoided by using a proven platform. I imagine the last thing they wanted was to bring out a relatively unknown name, built on an unproven design, into a $5 a gallon market, dead last behind a redesigned mustang and brand new camaro.

All the muscle cars are different and have different pros and cons. If the challenger isn't what you need you have alternatives. For the first time in 30 years.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Man I'm so glad you've made it clear to us you won't be getting a 4100 lb. porker. Now I won't have to read anymore complaints from you. Next would be the 425 HP is not enough. As the world turns around you, stop and look at what may not of been at all. I for one am glad you jumped ship and I hope you have warned the Camaro Forum of your arrival:D

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Im not afraid of the weight. When I started running the mirada years ago, someone told me "that car will never get out of its own way with an NA small block". With an NA small block running 9 to 1 compression and 87 octane, the old girl went 12.30s...

when youre driving a mopar, weight isnt a concern as they make the power to overcome said weight.


what is this "fastest gm"? the Z06? We are comparing the Challenger to the 70,000+ dollar corvette? I hope that youre not comparing it to the camaro, which doesnt exist yet.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Can not figure what a the fuss is about weight. Back in the early 70's B&E bodys with hemis in them were 3800 to 4000 lb and drove aufull. The A bodys with RB engines weighed 3400lb. I have had race cars all my life and know weight means alot in race cars. I run 1/8 mile and 100lb means about .080 to .090 sec difference (that is 8 hundreths of a sec). Two exact cars off the assembly line will have more difference in time than that. So lets wait and see before we become p-----.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

A tribute to Dodge that only two people out of a hundred don't like the Challenger. We'll settle it on the track or street when you get your Camaro in 2010.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Weight - I fluctuate between 240-260, oooohhhh..... the Cahallenger, no not one bit. i've driven a lot of heavy cars in my life and have made them faster than they should have probably gone. Last year i sold my '95 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham that had been produced with the same engine as the Corvette/Impala SS/Camaro (LT1 350) and it was a fast car before i did some engine bolt ons, 17" impala wheels & tires and tightened up the suspension. That car would surprise many a BMW, Mercedes, Audi as well as some domestics and MANY a Mustang GT. She weighed 4300lbs.
With all the EPA and other agencies now that scrutinize production cars nowadays, it's amazing these cars can move at all but engine developement has come along leaps & bounds.
I'm sure there is weght to be cut off this car but to appeal to a broad customer demographic and compete, they did a great job in giving us something we'd be proud and want to drive.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Apples to apples I only compare the Challenger to the Camaro and the Mustang - the Challenger is better looking than both. I look forward to reading track comparison tests, but highly unlikely to sway me from the Challenger.

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

No one seems to mention the best thing about the Challenger at ANY weight. A Hemi! A detuned one at that. This car can gain 90+ hp on a tune, intake and exhaust!

Weight to HP ratio is proven, and yet the 4400 pound 94-96 ImpalaSS has such great transfer that with a couple bolt on's it will take launch harder then the same year corvette with the same motor and mods.... I dont think Chevy intended to have this lead sled do what it does, but the fact remains.

On a single 67mm turbo and the 426 conversion the Challenger will produce 725hp and 750pf of torque! Thats with a 11.30 1/4 mile and a top speed just over 170mph!
All this for just under 8,000.00 and some labor.
The best part is that you retain the manners of a every day driver, and still come in at the 4200lb range. The all race version of the 2008 challenger has a race weight of 3600+ pounds and 525 hp.

Give me hemi math in the mustang, or camaro and we have something to discuss....

Ask anyone who drives ANY make, and they will bow to the Hemi even if they dislike Dodge. The production Challenger is a good start.... let the mods begin!

RE: Anybody else pissed?
 

Seems to me that anbody now just discovering the Challenger is heavy, just hasn't been keeping with the news.

See here in the thread "Why is the Challenger so heavy" posted over 2 years ago.

https://dodgechallenger.com/forums/fb.asp?m=116

If you want to talk about it some more put it there.


We do not like foul language consistently showing up on this post when people reply.