Biting off more than you can chew on a loan is the American Way. Is it not? Be a slave to your car; dream about it when you sleep at night; let it become your new religion; let it be the envy of every one of your buddies, family members and most of all...the other drivers in their eco-friendly cost-effective hybrids or whatever. What I have come to realize is that there is something really, really special taking place these days. Many of us, including yours truly, weren't even alive in the muscle/pony car hey-day, but we have our chance now to experience it all over again. By summer 2009 when there's Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers and maybe even GTOs ruling the streets again, it's gonna be pretty damn special. Personally, my plan is to buy one and hang on to it forever. Maybe it will become a family heirloom to my kid's kids and so on and so forth. As long as you don't plan on trading it in a few years later, it will be well worth the 4-7 years of being a slave to your car payment. And if the little woman isn't down with the plan, I recommend showing her the door! A man needs to have priorities; an escape; a toy!

I think the Challenger will make you happier than you could ever imagine. It will also serve as a constant reminder what your reward is for all that dedication and hard work spent working 50-60 hours a week or even more, like most of us already do. Furthermore, can you really put a price on lining up next to some jag-off in a European import costing a boatload more than your beautiful Challenger and absolutely blowing his doors off? Perhaps some people can, but I can't....the look on said jagoff's face when he finally catches up to you while you're stopped at the next red light will be PRICELESS! I've experienced that feeling many a time in my Mustang and man it feels GREAT!

In all seriousness though, to answer your original question, I would think you need to earn a minimum of $55K annually in order for an R/T or an SRT-8 to be do-able. Admittedly, that is based on absolutely zero scientific research or fact. It's strictly a hunch, however I bet it's pretty damn close.

Happy Motoring my friend!

 

I think if that is how you feel about your wife, then you should never have married her to begin with.

If it takes a Challenger to make you "happier than you could ever imagine", then your probably have the wrong priorities in your life.

That is not valid at all because it depends on the lifestyle you live and how much you spend.

That is not the American way, it is just the wrong way.

People spend more time planning their family vacation than they will in their financial future.

If people planned their financial future, everybody can retire a millionaire but you have to plan for it and make it happen.

 

A couple things here Jeremiah:

1) I'm not married (never have been) and have no kids (that I'm aware of any way) so....

2) It appears you are having some difficulty comprehending or perhaps you simply disagree with my earlier comment that a Challenger COULD make you happier in life than you could ever imagine. For people who eat, drink, sleep, breathe and crap cars that comment is not too far off. Furthermore, I would have thought that someone such as yourself with 2,539 posts (and counting) in the Dodge Challenger forum could certainly understand and appreciate my fondness for such a great automobile and the need to do whatever it takes to get one. Even if that means "biting off more than you can chew". But maybe I'm mistaken...

3) My suggestion of needing to earn a minimum of $55K annually to be able to comfortably afford this car was clearly prefaced by the statement that it was based on absolutely zero scientific research or fact. However, I don't care how you live your life and how careful you are with personal expenditures, someone making $35K a year or whatever, ain't gonna be drivin a 2008 V8 Challenger unless they have a trust fund.

4) Finally, if the kid wants to go out and buy a Challenger I say "go for it"! I would venture to guess I'm not the only one out there who has bitten off more than he can chew on a (car) loan before. It may not be the most financially sound decision one could enter in to (I admit), but for some of us, life isn't all about money and squirreling it all away underneath their mattress. I recommend that you save the planning-for-your-financial-future discussion for another time and place, OK?

Ride that Challenger passion brotha! Oh yeah one more thing - How `bout them RED SOX???? GO SOX!!

 

Sorry Albeeno, I'm probably too much a family man and home body home body but I have to agree with Jeremiah 29:11. I was raised to appreciate the value and verve of the art of the Muscle Car as expressed by Mopar from my step dad. He as you have expressed before was largely, Mopar or no car. I like that.

I have been waiting for two years, annoying the hell out of anyone who gets in ear shot of me about how cherry this ride is going to be and how I will finally purchase an impractical car. I've always had 4cyl econoboxes of the asian and german variety (w/ one Plymouth Horizon) save for my Sienna (I still laugh at myself as this represents the most powerful car I have ever owned @ 210 HP...my mother now own's my recently deceased stepdad's 69.5 superbee six pack w/ 11K original miles which is needless to say more powerful but this is her was his)...so this car represents a big step in my life (buying impractical cars is something that goes against my nature, love practical reliable transportation) but this is a big expenditure). So this represents a big thing in my life.

With this said, I don't believe this will make me happier than I can ever imagine. My philosophy is happiness is something you choose to be. There will be periods where it is a hard choice, but at the end of the day it is your choice to make. I'm happy wanting this car. I'm sure I'll be happier owning this car, but if I never owned, I'd still be happy.

I'm beyond fond of this automobile; down right obsessed. I will sleep better once I have it. But, even if I came to the sad conclusion I couldn't, I'd still manage happiness (hard choice).

I disagree with your 3 point. If he wants it enough, I could probably figure it out even on 35K (if he were living @ his parents house) or entered into a ridiculous loan. I've known plenty of people who had very little income, very little expense and a priority that seemed askew to me....but that's me (again practical) he could afford it w/ some poor choices (by my standards) at that level....

I agree w/ you on the forth point (provided he's single or w/o kids) youth is your time in life where your best lessons are learned through catastrophic mistakes, go out get under a ridiculous loan, fight, kick, scrap and at the end if you lose the car to some repo man, at least he can't take the memories you had in it and the stories you can tell your kids later in life....

I chose to make my mistakes elsewhere (not financial) and I kind of regret it....kind of......I will buy my SRT; go to SRT track day, have fun w/ this toy (the mrs is cool w/ it....should you get married, it'll take you 15 years or so..but you'll learn that choosing to be happy can sometimes involve an amount of obsequiousness....of course this would have been one of the battles worth fighting and winning)....

As for Redsox, I've recently mustered (with a lot of age) an attention span that allows me to watch and enjoy NASCAR, I haven't gotten as far as being able to endure non-penant race baseball....too much waiting....I enjoy Sportscenter Baseball...but that's like 5 minutes of 30 games .....so it's s pretty potent condensation of the best of hundreds of hours of footage......

And, not sure if this is wise, as I'm setting myself up for potential abuse....but I would deduce you're probably a patriots fan as well? If so I have the un-enviable position of having my team try to ruin the spread this weekend against NE......yikes! Go Skins!

Finally, another the starter of this thread could consider is program cars....I would imagine some rental agencies are going to get 09's in 2010 or 2011, I'm sure some of these cars will be entering the market w/ low miles.....2010.....where's the mylar clothes and flying cars we were promised? No moon bases or nothing......

 

Skippy,

Thank you for your thoughts and commentary. It is always interesting to get your perspective on a whole host of different topics ranging from philosophy, econo-box cars, and sports. I, myself, still have many life lessons to learn, as do many of us. One thing I have learned however is that life is simply too short. Living your life a 1/4 mile at a time inside a Dodge Challenger seems to me like a helluva good way to enjoy what's left of the ride in this crazy mixed-up world! We only get one chance to make the best of our brief time here...let's enjoy it to its fullest!

Oh and PS: We're gonna cut thru the Redskins this Sunday like a warm knife thru butter. GO PATS!!! : )

-The Beener


[quote]ORIGINAL: DamnSkippy

Sorry Albeeno, I'm probably too much a family man and home body home body but I have to agree with Jeremiah 29:11. I was raised to appreciate the value and verve of the art of the Muscle Car as expressed by Mopar from my step dad. He as you have expressed before was largely, Mopar or no car. I like that.

I have been waiting for two years, annoying the hell out of anyone who gets in ear shot of me about how cherry this ride is going to be and how I will finally purchase an impractical car. I've always had 4cyl econoboxes of the asian and german variety (w/ one Plymouth Horizon) save for my Sienna (I still laugh at myself as this represents the most powerful car I have ever owned @ 210 HP...my mother now own's my recently deceased stepdad's 69.5 superbee six pack w/ 11K original miles which is needless to say more powerful but this is her was his)...so this car represents a big step in my life (buying impractical cars is something that goes against my nature, love practical reliable transportation) but this is a big expenditure). So this represents a big thing in my life.

With this said, I don't believe this will make me happier than I can ever imagine. My philosophy is happiness is something you choose to be. There will be periods where it is a hard choice, but at the end of the day it is your choice to make. I'm happy wanting this car. I'm sure I'll be happier owning this car, but if I never owned, I'd still be happy.

I'm beyond fond of this automobile; down right obsessed. I will sleep better once I have it. But, even if I came to the sad conclusion I couldn't, I'd still manage happiness (hard choice).

I disagree with your 3 point. If he wants it enough, I could probably figure it out even on 35K (if he were living @ his parents house) or entered into a ridiculous loan. I've known plenty of people who had very little income, very little expense and a priority that seemed askew to me....but that's me (again practical) he could afford it w/ some poor choices (by my standards) at that level....

I agree w/ you on the forth point (provided he's single or w/o kids) youth is your time in life where your best lessons are learned through catastrophic mistakes, go out get under a ridiculous loan, fight, kick, scrap and at the end if you lose the car to some repo man, at least he can't take the memories you had in it and the stories you can tell your kids later in life....

I chose to make my mistakes elsewhere (not financial) and I kind of regret it....kind of......I will buy my SRT; go to SRT track day, have fun w/ this toy (the mrs is cool w/ it....should you get married, it'll take you 15 years or so..but you'll learn that choosing to be happy can sometimes involve an amount of obsequiousness....of course this would have been one of the battles worth fighting and winning)....

As for Redsox, I've recently mustered (with a lot of age) an attention span that allows me to watch and enjoy NASCAR, I haven't gotten as far as being able to endure non-penant race baseball....too much waiting....I enjoy Sportscenter Baseball...but that's like 5 minutes of 30 games .....so it's s pretty potent condensation of the best of hundreds of hours of footage..

 

Yes. I will own an SRT Chally in '09. I only hope I don't kill myself in it. I give the econoboxes hell.....so, finding the discipline to not use all available power and put myself into the unenviable position of trying to break one of the basic laws of physics (multiple matter occupying the same space at the same time)....I'll be tight.....

As for the game this weekend....while it's an enviable position to be in basking in the spot light....you have lots of teams willing to take lots of chances to mar you.....we may not win...we may win....but we'll certainly spoil the spread.....if I were a gamblin' I wouldn't take the Pats and 17.....good luck, though, admittedly, I don't think the Pats will need it.

 

If you ask God to help you find the right lady to marry, you will be blessed and happier than you could ever imagine.

I only have that many posts because I have been on this forum for since 3 days after it's inception which was 2 years ago. I am sure you will have many after 2 years.

Rich people know that material things do not make you happy and we poor people should realize that also. Happiness is how you feel externally, joy is how you feel internally. I get both of those from God, family, and friends and my relationships with all of those.


My son is 25 years old and he paid off his 2006 Mustang($32K) in 13 months but he saved and planned for this expenditure. I can't think of any worse way to get in debt
that to get a $40K and not be able to buy anything else.




I already had the financial discussion on this forum way before you ever joined so I do not need to.

 

For the record...I agreed with Albeeno's 4th point; all but the last line....I read back through the thread and saw your earlier posts from July and understood you had commented earlier....

I think there's validity in many approaches...I believe there's a "live beyond your means mentality" that's run rampant in the U.S. and it can't be good. I also believe there's a time and a place for debt. I'd say the time and place for financial mistakes is early 20's before kids, of course. I started early so I didn't get to incur tons-o-debt like most; I got job, a savings account and little sleep.

As for worse ways to incur 40K in debt...he could be addicted to drugs or gambling...so sure's there's worse ways to incur debt....from a pragmatist's approach 32K is a lot for a toy-car....you don't buy these types of car for practical reasons, you derive pleasure from them because they are decadent and you shouldn't buy if you're being responsible. That's the lure. My parents house in VA was purchased on 5 acres of land and the house built for 10K in 1972, what did a Chally go for? 3K? for a pretty hot one? Thats one third of a decent sized house w/ some good land...arguably that would have been an irresponsible ride to purchase.....but people did it, and had the stories for the rest of their lives....

There's no rational explanation on why one should or shouldn't make this kind of purchase...many more arguments why you shouldn't (and that's what makes it so enticing) it lures for all the wrong reasons......

if you make mistakes when you're young and you have the right programming (work ethic, character, faith) you can rebound from everything.....is it sound or prudent? No. It's not even sound or prudent at a stage where it can be afforded...what it is is fun...and if you're not causing any pain to anyone else or permanent damage to yourself, my philosophy is make your mistakes when you can....like day trading in your 20's and Mutual funds in 30's 40's 50's and leveling out w/ bonds and high interest savings account beyond......humans are resilient; it is how we created.

The whole question is a real Johnathan Swift exercise (little endians and big endians). I don't believe there's a right answer....I believe the original poster is fantasizing and trying to get the gumption or intestinal fortitude to make that mistake...and again...not all mistakes are bad....education (real education) can be derived from a series of mistakes....as long as they don't involve anything real....(family, health, crime being real, I don't find money to be one necessarily, you can always find enough if you have the right attitude and don't let it determine your happiness)......a hard charger can bounce back from most anything....I think I've crafted another painfully prolix post...I need to sleep...and find some news on the Chally!

Evenin' Gents.

 

I am a believer that if I raised my kids right, you can teach them not to make those same mistakes. I think you said, let them make mistakes at an early age but why
if you can teach them.

The $32k 2006 Mustang is his only mode of tranportation and it works for him and is practical for him.....no kids and no wife yet. What may be practical for him, may not be for you and I. The drugs and gambling stuff you mentioned is not even on the radar. I am talking about young couples who splurge and buy material things that they do not need or are too expensive like Vipers and big houses for people in their 20's.

I feel as a parent it is my reponsibility to teach them finances, how to buy a car, etc.

You need to took to a financial advisor about the "Cost of Waiting". Let me know if you want know more.

 

I am currently in the process of trying to train my kids right. With five in the home (9,7,5,2 and 3 months) that is sometimes a tall order. What I've seen in my few years is the importance of, yes, letting the kids make mistakes -- EARLY. Like at 5, 7, 9 years old -- and allowing them to face the consequences when there's little more at stake than a smidgen of their pride and a loving rod of correction. I have seen in my own family the pitfalls of bailing kids out at these ages and I'm striving to find a balance.

I've never spent more than $1500 on a car (my Challenger was a gift from my dad), and as much as I think it'd be fun to have something like a Challenger for a daily driver I know at this stage of my life it ain't gonna happen. Besides, I made my wife promise never to let me borrow money to buy a car -- ANY car. I'm cheap, I'm poor, and I can fix my own junkers, why would I give that much money to a bank when I can give much less to a car parts store and still get back and forth to work just the same?

About happiness. I don't NEED a Challenger to be happy, mine or a new one. Really, I don't need ANY of my stuff to be happy. I think we too often confuse enjoyment and pleasure with happiness. Maybe happiness is the wrong word. How about Joy. I can be joyful with just my wife and my kids, a roof over our heads and enough food to keep us fed. Well... I suppose I don't even need that. I have my Lord, my Jesus, and HE is all I really need. If He ever decided to take it ALL, I'd still have Him. I pray He never tests me in the ALL part, but I know He supports even in something as nightmarish as losing a child -- I have been there.

So, where is this rambling going? I won't say never borrow money for a car like me, for most people that is not practical. I will say, don't let any car, any posession, any material thing, even any person, become a god, become an object of worship. None of those things will EVER bring happiness, at best fleeting pleasure. There is only one God, only One who can provide, sustain and give true JOY -- only He is worthy of worship.