Winter caution
12-20-2008, 03:12 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,755
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Winter caution
It occasionally gets icy, even in San Antonio. Monday night-Tuesday morning, it was threatening to ice up on the roads here, so crews were dispatched to spread a chemical de-icer, magnesium chloride, on the streets. Apparently, in certain weather conditions, the magnesium chloride itself gets slippery, and by the time Tuesday afternoon came around, 400 wrecks had been reported in the city. I just found out tonight that one of them was an 09 Challenger RT that's owned by a guy who works in the same building I do. He's OK, but apparently the Challenger was totaled. This is just a reminder to be EXTREMELY careful when conditions are icy.
12-20-2008, 04:59 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location:
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Winter caution
Here in Indiana about every three days we are getting hit really slick, roads Im not driving the Challenger now. One big reason the liguid deicer will eat up a car or truck its terrible. If your driving your Challenger on roads with that on them I would wash off as soon as possible, even better leave your car at home it will damage your car
12-20-2008, 07:57 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Winter caution
Yeah, it's pretty bad stuff. I'm still trying to figure out the use in it. They lay that stuff down here all the time, but when it's cold and snowing, it doesn't seem to help worth a darn. I guess their theory is as long as it stays at a certain temperature, the stuff will work. Unfortunately that rarely happens.
12-20-2008, 09:43 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location:
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Winter caution
Ever since they switched to the checmical mix here in Ohio, we have been very busy at the shop replacing brake lines, trans cooler lines, fuel lines, fuel tanks, fuel fill tubes, you name it. Whatever they are using, it is VERY corrosive!!! I drive winter beaters so my good cars and trucks will live a long rust-free life.
As for winter traction...there is no substitute for good winter tires. I highly recommend Bridgestone Blizzaks (and always in a set of four!).
As for winter traction...there is no substitute for good winter tires. I highly recommend Bridgestone Blizzaks (and always in a set of four!).
12-20-2008, 06:59 PM
#6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,755
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Winter caution
The state of Texas apparently disagrees with all those who decry chemical de-icers. 
State: De-icing chemicals
not to blame for traffic accidents
By Robert Crowe - Express-News
Transportation officials said they have not found any evidence that de-icing chemicals used last week in anticipation of a hard freeze were responsible for any of the nearly 400 traffic collisions that clogged city freeways Tuesday.
Still, a police source close to the investigations into the collisions, which for several hours backed up traffic on the city’s most heavily-traveled thoroughfares, said investigators continue to link the magnesium chloride to some wrecks.
An official with the Texas Department of Transportation said Friday that the agency continues to review the causes of dozens of accidents, while also analyzing its materials in the wake of scores of wrecks that police initially attributed to the use of the de-icing substance.
“No conclusive evidence indicated that the anti-icing agent was responsible for these accidents,” Laura Lopez, TxDOT’s San Antonio spokeswoman, said in a prepared statement.
Because the investigations into the wrecks continues, Officer Joe Rios, a San Antonio Police Department spokesman, said SAPD could not comment about the causes.
However, many officers who responded to the Tuesday accidents — which occurred across the city on U.S. 281 and Interstates 35 and 37, among others — remain convinced that TxDOT’s chemical spray contributed to many wrecks, said a police source familiar with the investigation but unauthorized to speak.
A TxDOT review of available police reports for 46 of the wrecks indicated that 15 of them occurred on or near a freeway bridge, and TxDOT only applies the liquid de-icer, magnesium chloride, to bridge decks, Lopez said.
Many of the “bridges” that TxDOT sprayed included many miles of elevated freeways surrounding downtown, the police source said.
Some San Antonio police officers said Tuesday that the anti-icing chemicals might have mixed with existing road oils to create especially slick surfaces, something TxDOT is investigating, Lopez said.
TxDOT sprayed the city’s roadways Monday night to prepare for a hard freeze with precipitation, although those weather conditions did not occur.
Magnesium chloride and other liquid de-icers have been linked to accidents in Colorado, New Mexico and other states.
The police source said TxDOT workers acknowledged a link to Tuesday’s accidents when they placed crushed gravel and sand on accident-prone areas that had been sprayed with the de-icer.
“That was the only way they could stop the accidents,” the source said. “There was no ice on the roads. Why would they do that if they didn’t think it (the de-icer) was a problem?”
Officers responded to nearly 400 wrecks that day. On a typical day, officers respond to about 140. At least one person died Tuesday after his pickup skidded into a guardrail on a ramp from Interstate 10 to Interstate 37 near downtown. Speed was the main cause, but the de-icer was listed as a road condition, according to the police report.
TxDOT’s Lopez said many accidents happened on areas that TxDOT did not spray with its chemicals. The use of its anti-icing chemicals actually minimized accidents in Austin, Kerrville and New Braunfels, the agency said Friday.
Those areas, however, experienced freezing temperatures and precipitation.
Lopez said TxDOT is testing the materials at its own lab, and the material supplier, Southwest Envirotech, is conducting its own analysis. An equipment review found that the trucks used to apply the agent were working properly, TxDOT officials said.
“TxDOT will continue to review our application methods and make any necessary improvements,” Lopez said.
“TxDOT is committed to cooperating with SAPD to maximize safety and minimize risk during future ice conditions.”
The agency has not decided whether to discontinue its use of the liquid de-icer, which lessens the need for sand.
TxDOT urges motorists to reduce driving speeds and avoid abrupt stops in winter conditions.
State: De-icing chemicals
not to blame for traffic accidents
By Robert Crowe - Express-News
Transportation officials said they have not found any evidence that de-icing chemicals used last week in anticipation of a hard freeze were responsible for any of the nearly 400 traffic collisions that clogged city freeways Tuesday.
Still, a police source close to the investigations into the collisions, which for several hours backed up traffic on the city’s most heavily-traveled thoroughfares, said investigators continue to link the magnesium chloride to some wrecks.
An official with the Texas Department of Transportation said Friday that the agency continues to review the causes of dozens of accidents, while also analyzing its materials in the wake of scores of wrecks that police initially attributed to the use of the de-icing substance.
“No conclusive evidence indicated that the anti-icing agent was responsible for these accidents,” Laura Lopez, TxDOT’s San Antonio spokeswoman, said in a prepared statement.
Because the investigations into the wrecks continues, Officer Joe Rios, a San Antonio Police Department spokesman, said SAPD could not comment about the causes.
However, many officers who responded to the Tuesday accidents — which occurred across the city on U.S. 281 and Interstates 35 and 37, among others — remain convinced that TxDOT’s chemical spray contributed to many wrecks, said a police source familiar with the investigation but unauthorized to speak.
A TxDOT review of available police reports for 46 of the wrecks indicated that 15 of them occurred on or near a freeway bridge, and TxDOT only applies the liquid de-icer, magnesium chloride, to bridge decks, Lopez said.
Many of the “bridges” that TxDOT sprayed included many miles of elevated freeways surrounding downtown, the police source said.
Some San Antonio police officers said Tuesday that the anti-icing chemicals might have mixed with existing road oils to create especially slick surfaces, something TxDOT is investigating, Lopez said.
TxDOT sprayed the city’s roadways Monday night to prepare for a hard freeze with precipitation, although those weather conditions did not occur.
Magnesium chloride and other liquid de-icers have been linked to accidents in Colorado, New Mexico and other states.
The police source said TxDOT workers acknowledged a link to Tuesday’s accidents when they placed crushed gravel and sand on accident-prone areas that had been sprayed with the de-icer.
“That was the only way they could stop the accidents,” the source said. “There was no ice on the roads. Why would they do that if they didn’t think it (the de-icer) was a problem?”
Officers responded to nearly 400 wrecks that day. On a typical day, officers respond to about 140. At least one person died Tuesday after his pickup skidded into a guardrail on a ramp from Interstate 10 to Interstate 37 near downtown. Speed was the main cause, but the de-icer was listed as a road condition, according to the police report.
TxDOT’s Lopez said many accidents happened on areas that TxDOT did not spray with its chemicals. The use of its anti-icing chemicals actually minimized accidents in Austin, Kerrville and New Braunfels, the agency said Friday.
Those areas, however, experienced freezing temperatures and precipitation.
Lopez said TxDOT is testing the materials at its own lab, and the material supplier, Southwest Envirotech, is conducting its own analysis. An equipment review found that the trucks used to apply the agent were working properly, TxDOT officials said.
“TxDOT will continue to review our application methods and make any necessary improvements,” Lopez said.
“TxDOT is committed to cooperating with SAPD to maximize safety and minimize risk during future ice conditions.”
The agency has not decided whether to discontinue its use of the liquid de-icer, which lessens the need for sand.
TxDOT urges motorists to reduce driving speeds and avoid abrupt stops in winter conditions.
12-20-2008, 08:53 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Milw., Wi.
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Winter caution
Up here in Milwaukee they use two different chemicals magnesuim chloride, calcium chloride, plus tons of rock salt. Calcium chloride is used when temps are around 15 degrees or below. Mag chloride is used when temps are in the 20's or rock salt. They might be using the wrong chemicals down there.
12-21-2008, 03:53 AM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location:
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Winter caution
The liquid products have become more popular with highway departments across the country in the last few years. Maybe they cost less or you can cover more miles with a truck load but the results arent as good as rock salt and sand and the ellect on cars is bad for metal
12-21-2008, 04:35 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location:
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Winter caution
Around here, they put the chemicals down and forget about the roads for a while. It's like they forgot there was a plow blade on the front of the trucks. More often than not, we are driving in 3-4 inches of slush. It really throws you around. I wish they would go back to simply plowing the roads first, and then throw down some sand/cinders for a little traction around the intersections. I have no problem hauling bootie on snow/ice covered roads as long as they are plowed. It's that darned slush that I don't like.
