Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Interesting comments on the Viper but I know some people do not trust Consumer Reports.

If I had a choice, I would have picked the Porsche Cayman which is not listed.


Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- In testing the most expensive group of cars the magazine has ever purchased, Consumer Reports rated the Porsche 911 as the top high-performance sports car.

The 911 was tested against the Chevrolet Corvette Z06, the Dodge Viper and other performance vehicles in a competitive test of luxury sports cars.

The prices of the eight cars in the magazine's most recent tests ranged from $45,545 for a Lotus Elise to $105,855 for a Mercedes-Benz SL550.

In the magazine, those results are combined with those of six other luxury performance cars tested previously to provide a 14-car ranking of high-priced performance cars.

Consumer Reports, published by the non-profit Consumer's Union, purchases all the vehicles it tests for the magazine. The vehicles are bought anonymously from retail auto dealers.

Photos:Consumer Reports Supercar Test

Cars are tested on public roads as well as at the magazine's test track facility in Connecticut. Cars are put through a variety of tests, including high-speed maneuvering, braking and cornering.

The scoring system used for these cars was different from that generally used by the magazine for minivans and sedans, said David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' Auto Test Center.

While the scoring was still heavily weighted toward safety, including emergency handling, factors like acceleration were given more importance than, for instance, trunk space, Champion said.

Comfort, convenience and day-to-day drivability were still factors in the rankings, though.

Performance battle
"The 911 wowed us enough with its acceleration, handling, and braking for us to rate it our top sports car," said Champion. "The 911 is also easy to drive, but its much less expensive Boxster sibling performed almost as well."

The 911 cost about $87,500 as tested. The Corvette Z06's price was about $77,000.

The Corvette impressed the magazine's test drivers with its powerful acceleration and stable feel. The magazine called its handling "less precise" than the 911's, though.

The magazine called the Corvette Z06's predicted reliability "Poor," which prevented them from actually recommending the car in spite of high scores for performance and comfort.

The V-10-powered Viper ranked as the fastest car ever tested by the magazine with a 0-60 time of 4.2 seconds. But it was only a tenth-of-a-second quicker than the Corvette Z06 and beat the 6-cylinder 911 by just two-tenths.

In other performance measures, it was no better than those cars, according to the magazine, in spite of a price that was $15,000 higher than the second-ranked Corvette Z06.

Ultimately, the Viper ranked second-to-last out of the 14 in the magazine's point system.

The Viper was rated as "Poor" in most "Comfort and Convenience" areas including "Ride," "Noise," and "Front seat comfort."

Still, Champion said, "I really liked the Viper."

The V-10-powered Viper has the kind of personality that's lacking from more coolly competent cars like the top-ranked Porsche 911.

"It's brutal," he said. "Everything about it is brutal."

The Lotus Elise, the cheapest car on the list, ranked last because of its extreme nature. The Elise's ride is extremely harsh and getting in and out of the tiny, low-slung car is difficult.

If pushed behind its high handling limits, the Elise resists attempts to get it back under control.

"We thought it was a little too tricky for most people to drive," said Champion.

Of the 14 cars tested, only three actually got a "Recommended" check mark from the magazine. To be recommended a car must have good crash test scores and good "Predicted Reliabi

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Porsche 911 Carrera S
Price as tested: $87,520
Powertrain: 355-horsepower 3.8-liter 6-cylinder engine, 6-speed manual transmission
Photos and details

Rank: 1 out of 14
Highs: Handling, acceleration, braking, visibility
Lows: Highway noise, narrow seats

Not recommended due to insufficient reliability data

Consumer Reports praised the 911's handling and called its brakes "among the best we've ever tested."

"The relatively compliant suspension makes it stable even in bumpy corners and provides a more comfortable ride than in most sports cars," the magazine said.


[IMG]local://upfiles/17/2DA8F4ED6F824307A3DBBC4BEBDA2B4D.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Chevrolet Corvette Z06
Price as tested: $76,730
Powertrain: 505-horsepower 7-liter V-8, 6-speed manual transmission
Photos and details

Rank: 2 out of 14
Highs: Acceleration, handling, controls
Lows: Fit and finish, turning circle, reliability

Not recommended due to poor predicted reliability

Consumer Reports called the Z06 "stable and predictable with lots of grip and extremely high cornering limits."

In overall performance and comfort its score was very close to the 911's. The magazine complained of cheap-seeming interior quality.


[IMG]local://upfiles/17/528EA4D37426466CAB211E0D91FDA5A8.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Mercedes Benz SL550
Price as tested: $105,855
Powertrain: 382-horsepower 5.5-liter V-8, 7-speed automatic transmission
Photos and details

Rank: 4 out of 14
Highs: Acceleration, handling, ride, quietness, fit and finish, seat comfort
Lows: Controls, reliability

Not recommended due to only fair predicted reliability.

"The SL feels agile despite its considerable size and hefty weight," Consumer Reports said.

The magazine called the SL's steering "well weighted, responsive and direct" and noted that it demonstrated "impressive grip and stability and very high handling limits."

The SLs controls are awkward and confusing, the magazine said, and its cupholders are flimsy.


[IMG]local://upfiles/17/85AC5BF889DC4776AF05532CF8C50BCA.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

BMW 650i
Price as tested: $77,440
Powertrain: 360-horsepower 4.8-liter V-8, 6-speed automatic transmission
Photos and details

Rank: 5 out of 14
Highs: Powertrain, ride, fit and finish, front-seat comfort, quietness
Lows: Frustrating and complex iDrive control, cupholder design

Not recommended due to insufficient reliability data.

The 650i's "360-horsepower 4.8-liter V-8 delivers smooth, powerful performance and sounds great," Consumer Reports said.

"The iDrive system, which uses a large multidirectional knob on the console to enter commands into a glare-free center-mounted dashboard screen, is a disaster," the magazine said. Even simple functions for the radio and climate are too complex and distracting.


[IMG]local://upfiles/17/7BCFA27CFB2B49858784E63D069E9170.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Jaguar XK convertible
Price as tested: $86,300
Powertrain: 300-horsepower 4.2-liter V-8, six-speed automatic transmission
Photos and details

Rank: 10 out of 14
Highs: Ride, powertrain, quiet interior, fit and finish, front-seat comfort
Lows: Rear visibility with top up, controls

Not recommended due to insufficient reliability data.

The XK was completely redesigned for the 2006 model year so there wasn't enough reliability data for the magazine to base a recommendation on.

"Handling is quite nimble, especially considering the Jaguar's comfortable ride," Consumer Reports said.

The magazine called the XK's steering light at low speeds but noted that it's responsive and gives good feedback at higher speeds.

The XK's brake performance was called "excellent."


[IMG]local://upfiles/17/9245FA1818C04CABB536E32C1A568FAF.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Cadillac XLR
Price as tested: $77,290
Powertrain: 320-horsepower 4.6-liter V-8, five-speed automatic transmission
Photos and details

Rank: 12 out of 14
Highs: Uses regular fuel, powertrain
Lows: Lacks agility, slow top operation

Not recommended due to insufficient reliability data.

Calling the XLR an "elegant poser," Consumer Reports called its handling "sound but not sporty.." The magazine called the car's ride "OK, but a bit unsettled."

The XLR is based on the underpinnings of the Chevrolet Corvette. The Corvette actually has more occupant space, the magazine notes, in spite of being much more of a performance car.

While the interior is "plush and inviting," the magazine said, some plastic parts seemed cheap or didn't fit well.


[IMG]local://upfiles/17/F4A5B2545E644B6199334D9CD86C5386.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Lexus SC430
Price as tested: $67,084
Powertrain: 288-horsepower 4.3-liter V-8, six-speed automatic transmission
Photos and details

Rank: 11 out of 14
Highs: Controls, impeccable fit and finish, reliability
Lows: Fidgety ride, handling, tight cockpit

Recommended

The SC doesn't really qualify as a sports car, Consumer Reports said.

"Handling feels no more agile than an ordinary sedan, with noticeable body lean and steering that lacks feedback and requires large inputs," said the magazine.

Still, the magazine called the SC's ride "uncharacteristically harsh for a Lexus."

It does provide a quiet ride for its occupants and its controls are easy to use.


[IMG]local://upfiles/17/64296D2C11B8457EA8E167AB96E79D89.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Dodge Viper SRT10
Price as tested: $91,990
Powertrain: 510-horsepower 8.3-liter V-10, six-speed manual transmission
Photos and details

Rank: 13 out of 14
Highs: Explosive acceleration, handling, braking, exhaust burble, in-your-face styling
Lows: Burning-hot side sills, ride, noise, access, Spartan interior, driving position, visibility

Not recommended due to insufficient reliability data.

The Viper ranks as the quickest car Consumer Reports has ever tested. The magazine's test drivers took it from zero to sixty miles per hour in just 4.2 seconds.

Its brakes were also praised.

"Stopping power is awesome, with some of the shortest stopping distances we've ever recorded on dry pavement," the magazine said.

Despite performance numbers that ranked near the top of the group, the Viper lost points for poor visibility, uncomfortable seats, awkward controls and difficult access over scalding-hot side-mounted exhaust pipes.


[IMG]local://upfiles/17/1AA076047D1742DABF5D9047154CE354.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

This is why I don't like Consumer Reports. A super car is about pure performance not comfort. I also have trouble believing the Porsche is more reliable than the Corvette. If I understand things correctly, Porsche owns a portion of VW and VW's quality is in the toliet.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

I do not know about the new Corvette but in previous years, Corvettes have always had reliablility issues.

Hence one of the reason the resale drops so fast unlike a Porsche.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

I guess I should have clarified that I never meant to say that the Corvette is reliable. I know the Corvette has a bad reputation. If they are having problems with the Z06 engine, I won't be surprised. The 7.0L has a 11.0 or 11.1 to 1 compression which is super high espically for a all-aluminum engine. What problems do they normally have with the Corvette?

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

I would take a Porsche over a corvette anyday. Not that I don't think corvettes are a cool car, but the porsche is just a beautiful car.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

I won't deny that they are beautiful. I just prefer domestic muscle. Always have, always will.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

All of their systems over the years have shown up in the Corvette and it's a shame because it is a muscle car. One other thing that bugs me is that they sometimes
use too much plastic in the interior and it looks too cheesy.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

The interior is cheap but I'm not surprised. Despite the fact that it is sometimes matched up against luxury cars like the ones listed, people have to remember the simple fact. It is only a Chevrolet. I think that GM should have given the Corvette to Pontiac back when they first conceived the idea.

If you ask me, it is a muscle car heritage name that is in a sports car package. What systems specifically were the problem? Was it the engine or what that was the problem.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

the viper was the fastest, yet its second to last? :eek:

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

That was my thinking when I said, " A super car is about pure performance not comfort." This is what I don't like about Consumer Reports. A super car is not about comfort, that is a what a luxury car is for, and that is all they ever care about. It's all about refinement. No matter how good the domestic car is it just isn't refined enough to deserve winning. The fastest supercar should win because of performance, not refinement.

However, this is the only outlet that is declaring that the Viper is faster and quite frankly some of those other outlets numbers seem like they've been doctored; therefore, I going to give CR credit for that.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

I know performance is key, but is I paid that kind of money, it better damn well be comfortable. :D

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Well the way I see it, performance is all I expect from a Viper because that is all its about; however, some of these Mercedes coupes and convertibles are anything but comfortable. So I guess it depends on what you value. It seems to me that CR always compare every car to a Lexus no matter what class it is in. Their top priority seems like it is comfort and their last priority is performance, and in a supercar, Performance comes first.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

but where do you put a car like the new BMW M6..or the M5? These are full scale luxury cars with ALOT of power...

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

The M5 is a sedan; therefore, I would classify that as a luxury sport sedan. The M6 I would list as a luxury sport coupe. In my mind, its a different class. The Viper is all about performance, whereas the BMWs are ment to compete in luxury as well as performance. The M6 is limited to a 155mph top speed; meanwhile, the Viper goes up to 190. The Viper is still faster.

There isn't a domestic equivalent to the M6 because Cadillac doesn't have a hard top, and neither Lincoln or Cadillac is a serious contender anymore if you ask me. If Chrysler gets the Crossfire, then it might have a domestic equivalent.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

i typically dont consider top speed to be a good indicator of speed, as odd as that may sound, because of speed governors...

while the viper is an awesome car, i feel that it is far too often touted as being this untouchable monster, which simply isnt the case...hell, the mirada will beat non-srt10 vipers in the quarter mile...:D

if i had 90,000 to spend on a car, i would have a hard time buying the viper over the M6, simply because the M6 is such a complete vehicle...if i was buying a car purely for track fun, it would be down to a viper or a Z06..but at 3200lbs, the Z06 is hard to turn down at 20 grand less.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

90 g's, wouldn't be hard for me.:D Porsche 911. Or even the new Ducati coming out. = 65g's = 200HP at rear wheel[sm=hail.gif]

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

The Z06 is techincally $14,000 less expensive than the Viper. It is like the writers of many articles say. A fan of a particular car isn't going to care about the other one, and I'm like that. In the real world, I can't afford any of them. The simple fact is I don't really like the Corvette. It does nothing for me.

Your right that the BMW M6 is a very tempting car at the $13,000 price difference between the two. The fact is the BMW is nicer in terms of luxuries, but it isn't as fast in terms of acceleration either. The only thing I will say is if the BMW is anywhere near as uncomfortable as a Mercedes SL500, then there is now way I would consider it.

Remember your Mirada isn't stock vs. some of those non-SRT Vipers might be stock. The fact is I like the looks of the Viper the best out of all of them. I do have a bias towards the Viper, I'll admit that. It all depends on what you value.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

true, the vipers that i have beaten were stock or near stock, and the mirada is not, but considering that im in a 1983 family coupe, and they were in a supercar, i should get some slack...:D

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

True I will give you that. How much weight difference is there between the two?

The thing is I just don't like the idea of comparing a luxury sport coupe to a supercar. To me it is like comparing an SRT-4 to a Mustang GT. It depends on the owners preference. A Ferrari in my opinion is a better comparison to the Viper, but still. The people who want a Viper will never be able to afford a Ferrari and the Ferrari fans will never consider a Viper.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

a viper coupe weighs around 3420...the mirada weighs 3692

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Is that a normal Mirada or your's? That is one heavy car.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

mine..and im running a fiberglass hood, front fascia, trunk lid, no trunk interior, all aluminum wheels, no back seat, light front seats...but i also have a much heavier than stock rear end...suspension, etc

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

So overall is that heavier or lighter than the original? Regardless, that is one screaming machine to say the least. That car had so much potiential and few knew about it.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

well, mine screams thanks to the engine coming out of a 69 cuda...[8D]

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

A heavily modified cuda engine.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

honestly, its not that modified...

the stock engine has 10.5:1 pistons and required high octane fuel...when we put the motor together, i was 16 or so, and i couldnt afford good, high compression pistons, so we bought the least expensive 30 over 340 pistons that we could find. those pistons were 8.5:1 compression. the "good" 340 cylinder heads (j heads, x heads, etc) typically hold large intake valves (2.02 intake 1.60 exhaust)..my heads are late model 360 heads, ported and polished, but they only have 1.88 intake valves, which limits the engine quite a bit. so those two items actually hurt the performance...

to counter that, the engine is 30 over, so it actually displaces about 346 cubic inches. i run hooker super competition headers as opposed to the restrictive exhaust manifolds. for a long time i was running the stock cast iron intake manifold, although it was ported to match the heads, and i ran the stock thermoquad carb. with that setup, i was in the low 14s. I am now running an edelbrock air gap intake, which is a flow-through style intake manifold, and a proform "race carb". the carb is 800cfm, where as the stock thermoquad was (i believe..its been a while) 625 cfm? I am also running a much bigger than stock camshaft, and roller rockers. but in comparison to what most 340 racers are using, my build is very, very mild...

we are considering going to a better piston, perhaps 9 or 9.5 to 1 this winter...and someday id like to have a good set of heads with the bigger valves, but the car runs well for now, and if i would just stop buying cars, i could put more into the mirada, but amanda and i would really like a cruiser. eventually we will have the mirada here, and here, it is street legal. ;) i would like it to be into the lower 12s, nearing the 11s before it makes the move here...plus, my dad, who is THE reason that it runs so well with his decades of experience and of course his labor on the car, is starting to run it since its stored at the shop, and hes having alot of fun with it...so i dont want to take it off of him.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

I just turned 1000!

So about how much hp & tq do you think it's producing? To be able to get it close to the low 12 secs, your engine is hardly stock.

So if you get the Demon, are you going to keep your Stratus and her Ram, or does one of them have to go?

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

nothing has to go if we get the demon...we have a turbo daytona too, which i havent done anything with...if we need to get rid of something, the daytona will be the first to go. the demon would be the fifth car here, and it probably would be stored, not at our house...we actually plan on getting the challenger, or possibly an evo or 300C if the challenger pricing is too "ambitious"...and we dont plan on trading anything. we also have the ramcharger...im not a real big fan of trading vehicles...if anything, we might trade the stratus, but dealers screw people so hard on trade ins, i doubt that we will.

hp calculators (take them as you will) put my car around 460 bhp, and around 355whp, assuming a race weight of 3650lbs. I have spoken to a few guys who have alot of dyno experience, and they actually agree that with my times and trap speeds, 350-360 at the wheels sounds about right.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Damn, you have a cool, I guess you can say, Fiance(Are you use to that saying yet? ). Not that my wife isn't bad, I do have a great wife and all, but If I brought another car home, I would be dead duck. She doesn't know thye obsession of a man and his toys. If I had the means, Jay Leno would have some competition :D

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

i bought her performance parts for her truck for christmas last year...:)

she wants a muscle car too...and while a demon is no hemicuda, its a start...

but this is all up in the air, as we dont know if its nice.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

Hmm...You were able to beat a 450hp Viper in a heavier, probably less arrowdynamic car with only a 10hp advantage? Perhaps you have a bigger torque advantage then. What turbo Daytona do you have? I agree that at a dealership, they will cheat you on the trade in. The best route I have seen is eBay. A friend of mine sold his 1994 Intrepid ES (3.3L) no leather, sunroof, traction control, and other key options mind you with 150,000 miles for over $3,000. A dealer wouldn't have given him anything for that. What do you use the Ramcharger for? You have a nice collection. I hope to start my own collection when I have the money.

RE: Porsche 911 beats out 'Vette and Viper
 

the real limits of the viper seems to be:
1. driver skill
2. traction
3. traction


while aerodynamics play a factor in any sort of auto racing, it doesnt make much difference until higher speeds...you could build a 2000hp tank, and it would pull off the line from a 1000hp supra...they could be built to weigh the same, but at higher speeds, the aeros of the supra would make a difference...

i can consistantly pull low 1.7 and high 1.6 60 foot times thanks to my suspension and gears...hell, the early vipers in stock form were no strangers to the 13 second range...but with huge trap speeds. this is why you may see things like a new GTO running 13.00 @ 110mph, and me running 12.60@107mph...or a new viper running times like 12.50@120mph...