DSkippy

Subaru making cars (engines) for Toyota? Interesting......I know Honda used to brand Isuzu's

http://www.mercurynews.com/weekenddrive/ci_8263135

Anyone remember the post about Pony cars in NASCAR a few months back and Toyota bringing back the Supra, I was watching the market and I was imparted with the gift of premonition.

https://dodgechallenger.com/forums/m...a/tm.htm#16423

RLSH700

This sounds more like competition for the EVO and not so much against the muscle cars. Funny how Toyota can't seem to compete in performance using their own engines.

Jeremiah 29:11

I believe the Lotus Elise is using the Toyota engines.....I think.

RLSH700

A modified version which I believe Yamaha did and the only reason why the Elise is fast is due to be very light weight and short gearing. It only produces about 190 hp. Not performance car category at all. If you look at some of Toyota's engines, it takes a lot of technology and higher compression to get average output. The 3.5L they are using the Camry and Avalon has a 10.8 to 1 compression ratio, it has GDI and Dual-VVT yet it only produces 268hp & 248ft-lbs of tq. The Nissan VQ used in the Alitma has a 10.3 to 1 compression ratio a more simple VVT system and more normal level fuel injection system and produces 270hp & 258ft-lbs of tq. Heck the Chrysler 4.7L Powertech vs. the Toyota 4.7L engines is another example, the Toyota 4.7L has 4 valves per cylinder, a 10.0 to 1 compression ratio, and if I'm not mistake a VVT system and produces a mere 276hp & 313ft-lbs of tq, meanwhile the Chrysler 4.7L is still a 2 valve per cylinder, has a 9.8 to 1 compression ratio, no VVT system and produces 310hp & 330ft-lbs of tq. In fact all it has that the Toyota 4.7L doesn't is dual spark plugs per cylinder.

Jeremiah 29:11

The Toyota engine never did perform that well in the Toyota car it was in but because of the Lotus relationship with Toyota, the borrowed the engine and it did much better in the lighter Lotus.

You are correct in that is why all Lotus cars excel is because of the design philosophy which is a better power/weight ratio than any other car is the key to performance.

RLSH700

I'd think part of the reason why they did that was for cost reasons. That Toyota engine would be very inexpensive to use and would not need a very expensive transmission to back it up in the category of strength, so they would be able to offer a car that is outstanding in cornering and has acceptable acceleration for its class for the affordable price of $45K. Although you could probably drop in either a EVO or STi engine and get the car to move faster by the fact that it would offer 300hp to offset the weight increase, the cornering might suffer and the price would definitely have to increase as I'm sure those cost more and the transmission would definitely have to be strong enough for those engines.

Jeremiah 29:11

That is certainly part of it. There was a guy at Toyota that also knew a guy at Lotus. They used to work together.

BTW- I searched the New York Auto show website I could not find any mention of the 2009 Challenger. I wonder why?

RLSH700

Yes those relationships take place for sure.

Perhaps they are doing the same thing to New York as they did to me in St. Louis. I don't know why they use (forgive the term) Guiliani-style strategies on building support for this car. Waiting for the areas that you are already strong is not the point of doing these shows, you need to do this in areas in areas that you may not be as strong if you want to succeed. Has Toyota built their truck factories in California and the east coast where they have strong support for their traditional fan base, no they built it in the truck capital, Texas.

Jeremiah 29:11

Well, I hope they bring the Challenger to the Dallas Auto show.

RLSH700

Same here. Hopefully I'll be in the area when that happens.