Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

Just wanted to start a thread on wingcars, because several long exchanges have been started on some of the Challenger threads.....and it has gotten off topic of what this site is all about.....the Challenger. So if anyone would like to talk wingcars...lets talk.....
I have a clone that I am redoing to change a few things that I don't like.....but it's a clone and will never look like a real Daytona. Using some ideas I had when I owned my original Hemi 4 speed Superbird, but it was to valuable even back in the day to mess with.......sky's the limit with a clone (and money of course).
I was looking for pictures to post....and was surprised that I only have two, and both are before the nose was done....the Superbird on the other hand...I have a lot of old pictures....go figurer.
My Daytona started life as a 70 Charger SE with a 318. Has black interior and is still black on the exterior, but since it is now apart I have been toying with changing the color.
Now has built 440/auto with Dana, everything upgraded to Hemicar level (gaslines, brakes, cooling, etc.)
My Daytona clone has the special rear window and trunk lid, 69 tail lights, windshield a post chrome, etc.
Bulding a Daytona is a lot of work, but if you have some skill it can be done.

If anyone wants to know more about these cars, checkout:

Winged Warriors Club Site
Daytona/Superbird Auto Club site
Dodge Charger.com (Aero Cars section)

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

Remember seeing them on the road when I was a kid-thought they looked goofy. Now I can really appreciate what they are. I talked to the owner of a Superbird last year at Mopars at the Strip. He said every superbird had a vinyl roof to cover the sheet metal work
they did when installing the back window.Is that true?

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

Yes, it is true but no one cared like they do today. They just wanted to go fast..

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

They were built at the factory as Roadrunners & then sent out to be turned into Superbirds. So a vinyl top was the cheapest way to hide the body work.

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

You are all correct.....Chrysler lost a lot of money on each wingcar they built (both Daytona's and Superbird's) so they didn't want to invest a lot of time and money in their construction. The vinyl top covered the sometimes "poor" body work that went into the rear window plug. With the vinyl top they didn't have to "finish" the body work like they had to on the Daytona. When I say them...I am really talking about Creative Industries as they did all the special body work on standard RTs and Roadrunners.
And by the way "all" the special body parts are metal not fiberglass as reported in more than one auto mag, but for the fender scoops (for tire clearance) and headlight assemblies (same one used for both Daytona and Superbird, and the only special body part that is interchangable between the two models). Unless you count the front spoiler which is also the same for both models.
I remember some people laughing at my Superbird back in the day........I guess in a way I had the last laugh since these are the same people paying big $$$$ for the same car they made fun of back then....
**These cars were built back when Auto Makers had to build, and then offer to the public any car they wanted to race.....unlike today when they are all the same bodies for the most part with the only real difference being the decals and engines.........

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

Superbirds are awsome cars. I'd kill to have one.
Of course I would for any classic mopar.:D

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

People back then thought they were "butt-ugly" and they sat on dealer lots begging to be sold. I had a Roadrunner back then but wouldn't have been caught dead in a Superbird. Wish I'd had a crystal ball so I could have bought every one.

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RE: I am a huge fan...
 

Check with the Wing Warriors Club...they do a good job of tracking wingcars...they maybe able to tell you a bit about what happened to the Daytona since 1977........They are rather high profile...so if it's changed hands...they should know.

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

Here's a good writeup on the Superbirds and the Daytonas... this guy really seems to know his stuff ;)

http://wikicars.org/en/Plymouth_Superbird

http://wikicars.org/en/Dodge_Charger_%28B-body%29

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

The Wikicars site has a lot of interesting "facts", but not all of it is correct.
In regards to the Richard Petty Connection:
"Petty was suppostedly not happy with the way the new-for-1968 Plymouth Road Runner bodystyle was aerodynamically unfriendly compared to the equivalent Fords"
TRUE, but the whole story is that Petty wanted to run one of the new Charger 500 Aerobody cars and Plymonth wouldn't allow that. They wanted to keep Petty in a Plymonth. Petty felt this put him at a disadvantage, so he went to Ford.
As a side note, most all the Ford teams wouldn't share information with Petty, seeing him as "a wolf in the hen house". He was on his own, and still won..
"The Headlight buckets and turn signals are also different"
Both FALSE and TRUE, as the buckets ARE the same, however the turn signals are different
"Although this was known as the Road Runner Superbird, the Superbird was really more of a GTX than a Road Runner (but perhaps Plymouth didn't feel GTX Superbird rolled off the tongue like Road Runner Superbird did). For example, the Superbird shared the GTX's dashboard and interior that was standard on upper-level Satellites. Its drivetrains mirrored the GTX as well, such as the 375 hp 7.2L (440 cid) Super Commando V8 was standard (instead of the Road Runner's 335 hp 383 V8), with the 390 hp 440 3x2 Six-Pack and 425 hp 426 2x4 Hemi V8s as options. A 4-speed manual (with the ultra-cool pistol-grip shifter) or 3-speed automatic transmission could be had with any engine, and the automatic could have a column or floor console shift. All Superbirds had power front-disc brakes and the split top/bottom taillights as standard equipment (again, like the GTX)"
FALSE, all Superbirds started life as Road Runners not GTXs. The GTX was an upper scale version of the Road Runner with more dress up items such as more chrome and up scale interior. The Superbird did not come with this up scale level of interior or exterior chrome. It was all standard Road Runner. And, in fact the dash is entirely different between the Satellite and the GTX/Road Runner which has the Rallye instrumentation. Also, the wood dash from the GTX was never offered on the Superbird. You could however, get an upscale SE interior on the Daytona...but again not on the Superbird. And the split top/bottom taillights were Road Runner as well, they are the same as the GTX. Only the Satellite came with no split across the taillight.

This is why Universities do not want students using Wiki.... site for reseach...some good facts and some not so good.

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

I've never known of the headlight buckets to be interchangeable - not saying they AREN'T... guess I'll have to do some digging to find out for sure.

The article says more of a GTX than a Road Runner, it didn't say it wasn't a Road Runner - I suppose you could say it effectively split the difference between the 2.

Wasn't the Rallye dash an option on the Sport Satellites? I think it was...

Not all Road Runners had the split taillights, but all GTXs did.

Well hey... I did the best I could ;)

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

Like I said, overall the site is factual, just a few little bits of information that are incorrect. It may sound like I am splitting hairs, but just want to keep the record straight.

The headlight buckets are interchangeable. I have owned both an original Superbird and a Daytona (clone with stock nose) and the buckets fit both. I will look for my backup information to prove this as being a fact. You can also check with either of the wingcar sites to verify that this is indeed the case.

As for the Road Runner/GTX statement, the GTX is basically an upscale Road Runner. In fact Plymouth actually marketed the GTX as a "Gentleman's Road Runner". It carried a higher price tag because of the extra chrome and upscale interior, whereas the Road Runner was marketed as a plain all performance street machine with none of the housepower robbing extras. None of the Superbirds came with up scale interiors as they to were all performance, so stating that the Superbird is more GTX than Road Runner is an incorrect statement, Unless the author was referring to only engine choices, which would be closer to that offered on the GTX, since no 383's were offered on the GTX only the 440 4-bbl, 440 6-bbl, and the 426 Hemi (same as the Superbird). Plus the option availability was limited on the Superbird with several limitations such as no ram air, no AC, no rear windor defroster to name but a few.

As for the Rallye dash, it was not available on the Sport Satellites. They had the standard Satellite dash. But having said that....it doesn't mean that a few were never built. To many never offered options have turned up on old Mopars that should never have been. So when it comes to Chrysler......NEVER SAY NEVER! As an example, power windows were never offered on the Superbird, but in fact there are two or three "documented" birds with factory power windows.....go figure, so it is possible, just not likely.

As for the split tail lights...All Road Runners and GTX cars had them. Only Satellites, both plain and sport models came without the split tail lights. Check sales literature for the 70 model year to verify this........

The wingcars have an interesting past to say the least...but then most older Mopars do...........

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

This is only true for the NASCAR birds. On the street cars the fender tops are not cut out.

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

Actually the street Daytona has a hold cut out under the fender scoops that is covered with a screen. The street Superbird has no cut outs at all. The Daytona hole has no real use on the street, but it did start a lot of stories in some mags at the time about how it was there to extract air from the fender area....not true as again they were added to make room for tire clearance on the NASCAR Daytonas and Superbirds.
In Chrysler wind tunnel reports on the Daytona they ran a lot of studies on the ideal "rake" (nosedown angle) the wingcars should have on the track, and this is what led to the fender scoops.

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

Some good info, BLK (in case you hadn't figured it out yet, I was the author ;) ), and I'll revise some of the story. I've written about 100 or so articles for the site and I know they aren't all perfect - many I've had to use reference material for, and in many cases I don't have anything else to go on unless I run into someone like yourself who's actually owned one.

I've seen some Road Runners without the split taillights - don't know if they were substituted for the split ones - don't know why anyone would, but I've seen people do stranger things - like you said, the factory did some weird stuff back in those days.

Did you see the story on the Daytona and 500? I'd be curious to get your thoughts on that writeup.

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

I sort of figured you had ownership, but wasn't sure. Hope you didn't take anything I wrote personal. Like I said earlier, overall you did a great job, just a few little details incorrect.

I just looked over the Daytona and 500 sections, again great job.
Under the Daytona section:
Unsure as to what you mean by "There were also two small reverse facing scoops added atop each front fender for a drag reduction of 3%" Again the scoops themselves would have had little effect on drag. I never saw any numbers from the wind tunnel report that the scoops themselves did anything either + or -
just covered the front tires on the racers.

The following should be removed altogether; "The outrageous Daytona model was gone too, but there was a very (very) limited edition "Daytona Conversion Package" offered that had the 69 Daytona's fiberglass nose cone and tall rear spoiler, but retained the stock Charger's tunneled rear window. A mere total of 3 were sold"
**The "Daytona Conversion Package" never was offered and this whole story comes from the guy who had a nose and rear spoiler added to his Plum Purple 70 Charger RT. This car has been marketed as a "factory conversion" when in fact it was a dealer built car. The "Daytona Converion Package" label comes from the dealers service write up, making it look as if it was a factory offered package. I have pictures somewhere of the dealers work order. No big deal EXCEPT that the owner is trying to pass this car off as something it's never been. Truth is, it's a 70 Charger RT/SE with a nose and rear spoiler added, and nothing more. And again the noses were metal on all Daytona's (and Superbirds). If any of them have a fiberglass nose, it's an after market replacement. Bottomline, there are no 70 Daytona's, only clones such as mine built by their owners using 69 or 70 Chargers.

RE: Wingcars/Superbirds and Daytonas
 

Found a couple of additional facts that you may want to change in other sections for the Charger:

Under 1966:
"With a host of "options" including electroluminescent dash, quad buckets and"
[Both are actually standard features on all 66 Chargers]

Under 1967:
The 318 engine was all new for 67, having been redesigned

Under 1969:
the 69 didn't have side lights, they were reflectors that looked like lights
(68 and 70 Chargers had side lights)

Under 1970:
The 225 Slant 6 was offered in 69, and a small number were in fact built, but was never offered in 70.

"base and RT models lost their standard door map pockets"
[base and RT models actually retained the door map pockets on redesigned interior door panels]

Overall great job, Keep up the good work...............