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switching from a 3 speed to a 4 speed?

Old 12-11-2006, 08:27 AM
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Default switching from a 3 speed to a 4 speed?

I currently have a 3 speed in my 71 challanger that is mated to the 318 small block. I am going to eventually run a 440 with a 4 speed. My question is can any of the parts off the 3 speed be used on the 4 speed? I know the bell housing and clutch will need to be changed, but what about the rods? Will the driveshaft need to be changed? I am looking for a a-833 4 speed currently but the 440 will not be in the car for a year or so, money is tight. I also heard alot about the Tremec 5 speed transmissions. What needs to be done with that and what does that cost versus the 4 speed? Thanks for any help.
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Old 12-19-2006, 12:00 AM
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Default RE: switching from a 3 speed to a 4 speed?

i looked into swapping our 340 demon into a 4-speed car, and there is ALOT of stuff that goes into the conversion, and its quite expensive. the shifter, shirt arms, the gear box itself..the bell housing...the clutch assembly...i had a running total, and it went up in a HURRY. the only A833 gearbox that i found came without the shift arms and shifter, no bell housing and no clutch assembly, and it was still 750 bucks.

for far less, we went with a built 727.
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Old 12-19-2006, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: switching from a 3 speed to a 4 speed?

A built 727, isn't that an automatic? I am not converting from an auto to a 4 speed. It is a 3 speed, so I already have the pedals in place and the floor pans are already cut. I know I will need a new shifter , but can I use the rods from the 3 speed? I guess what I need to know is, when it comes time to sell my 3 speed, what parts are interchangable to a 4 speed and what can I sell? Thanks for your help.
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Old 01-16-2007, 11:51 AM
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Default RE: switching from a 3 speed to a 4 speed?

I am in a simular situation as you, but mine is an automatic. You can use most of what you already have, as far as clutch pedals and you won't need a 4-speed hump in your floorboard. The Keisler set up is nice and will improve your shifting and your overdrive. The trans will hold up to more HP and its a smoother shift. You can buy peices for your install and not have to buy the whole swap kit. It comes in pistol grip also and bolts in the stock location. I think the whole kit with hump, drive shaft and pedals, along with the trans and bellhousing is around $3000.Also cross member and associated wiring and speed o cable. You should look into this, it might be a better deal over the long run. Plus you will not need the whole kit and you could sell what you don't need as far as the 3-speed and such.
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Old 02-02-2007, 09:13 PM
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Default RE: switching from a 3 speed to a 4 speed?

go to keislerauto.com they have what you need to convert to a 5 speed. it will probably run you a between 3 and 4 thousand since you already
have a stick in the car.

as far as a 4 speed, a good rebuilt one from a reputable place will run you $800.00 plus you will have to change out everything but the pedals and clutch linkage.


i am getting ready to convert my 73 with a 440 from an auto to a 5 speed. gonna run me about 5 thousand. yikes

good luck
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Old 05-05-2007, 12:49 AM
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Default RE: switching from a 3 speed to a 4 speed?

As stated, you're ahead of the game by having a manual tranny car. The shift linkages will NOT work. As far as driveshaft length, that shouldn't be a problem, however the only hiccups you might encounter would be finding an early sixties 833 that has a ball-and-trunion yoke as opposed to the u-joints we are used to. Little things you don't think of will drive up the price, such as the reverse light indicator, the flywheel mount, and other small things. Good luck with it. Instead of forking out the big bucks for a Kiesler, I would go find a "boneyard" (if that quote could applly here) T56 six speed out of a Viper, Camaro or Vette.
Later
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Old 05-05-2007, 08:28 AM
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Default RE: switching from a 3 speed to a 4 speed?

Doesn't the bellhousing have to be modded. I think the trans has to be centered and have the holes drilled and tapped for the T-56. kelly you seem real knowledgable in this area, have you preformed this mod? I'm interested in any help with this install because I want to do it on my Challenger. I really need the overdrive. I have 3.91 rear gear and the 5-speed will be a much needed mod. I'm looking at the Kiesler trans package because its so complete. Drive shaft, hydraulic clutch and the trans hump. But I'm not above looking around if it will save me some bucks. So I will accept any comments on this swap.
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Old 05-05-2007, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: switching from a 3 speed to a 4 speed?

My fathers 71 Cuda was also a 318 3-speed. Now is going to be a 440-6 18 spline 4-speed. Bought the trans for 1200 rebuilt, bought a new clutch bell housing clutch fork. Clutch pedals will work and hopefully you have the manual console because if not they are rather expensive used. E body Pistol grips are pricey also i cant quite remember what he paid for his i think 375. You probrally already have the Z bar. So its cost worth but money well spent in my mind.

Did your car come with 8 3/4 rear?
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Old 05-05-2007, 07:58 PM
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Default Small block T56?

Lear, to be quite honest, I haven't performed the swap, I was thinking about doing that to my coronet before I sold it. I heard through the rumor mill that the viper motor has the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the RB series engines. From a corporate standpoint, it seems like it would make more sense that the viper and truck V10 would more likely be based on the 360, which was in production when the engineers were building the v10 back in the late eighties/early nineties.

So to answer your question lear, no. The closest I came to the swap was pricing a T56 from a Viper dismantler, and they ranged from $12-1600 bucks. Ouch.

To be quite honest, as I stated before, I would be more inclined to build a small block Challenger. It would be a better balanced package than a heavy 440 hanging over the K-frame, and everybody and their mother is putting 440s in sb cars! The 318/3 speed Challenger would be an easy base to start with. Throw in the fuel injected 360 (Mopar performance is slated to introduce a plug 'n' play setup for the modern motors, meaning I can get my hands on a wrecked Dak or 'Rango R/T and splice the ECU along with that Magnum between the Chally's frame rails!!! Woot-woot!) Magnum Force's badass from K-frame, Air ride's rear four-link setup. Come to think of this, I think i have posted about this before...

Anyway, a bit of historical trivia for you guys: Harry Cheeseborough and Lynn Townsend instructed the product planners that the 383 was going to be the largest engine in the Chally in the fourth quarter of '68 or the first of '69, until a crazy Chevy dealer started stuffing big block Rats into Camaros. To add insult to injury, despite Chevrolet having a displacement ban on their smaller cars (Now we know only 200 Z-16 396 Chevelles were built in '65!) a few 396 Camaros got the 427 transplant in Flint, and were ushered out the back door under the "Central Office Production Order" guise! So being that the new E-bodies were sharing the cowl, engine compartment, and underpinnings from their corporate cousins-the B-bodies, it was natural for Ma Mopar to slip that big elephant in...

Now, another reason why I make my case for the Small Block (besides the fact that I want to go for more than a straight line) is a story (tell me if I have told you guys this one before) of an engineer that took one of the early big block pilot cars home one night. The next morning there was a light dusting of snow on the ground, and the car just spun. In the words of John Sloan, "The HD suspension was not very slick".

Later kids
KFD
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Old 05-07-2007, 07:51 AM
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Default RE: Small block T56?

Thanks Kelly I was wondering myself about the rear bolt pattern of the latest Hemis and the V-10. I'm leaning strongly towards a stroker 340. That way it appears like a small block and packs a lot of punch. But the weight or lack there of will allow a moderate amount of handling. I'm also interested in a nice 4 wheel disc brake package. I want this car to haul and handle and stop as good as technology will allow. I've also toyed with the idea of a 6.4 6-speed swap.
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