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Old 05-12-2009, 03:32 PM
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guionM
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Originally Posted by Ridge Runner
I too was excited about another pony war.But with the condition of Chrysler and G.M.,the war may never come to be.The Camaro might not even be allowed to be kept in production,and the Challenger may meet the same fate from the federal scumbags.Remember,to get the cash,they got to show they are investing in small fuel sippers,not tire shredders.I am worried that they will stop muscle production and focus on Fiats.
The only remote danger Camaro is in will come if the CAW (Canadian Auto Workers) fails to reach an agreement with GM-Canada as demanded by the Canadian Federal and Quebec governments. If they can not reach an agreement, then GM will liquidate their Canadian operations, which includes the Oshawa plant that makes Camaro (as well as Impala and Lacrosse).

Saying the Dodge Challenger is in trouble because of "Federal Scumbags" is not just wrong, but also pretty stupid. Here's why.

First, the Automotive Task Force... if you actually read their report... is in no way limiting, dictating, or restricting the availability of performance cars or sports coupes.

Second, Chrysler (and GM) got to where they were today by the business choices they made, not by the gun of a Federal Task Force. Sure, Daimler basically raped Chrysler's cash and early decade product lineup, then Cerberus picked up Chrysler with the intent of getting Chrysler Financial and spinning off the rest to someone else. Sure, GM simply swept their problems under the rug until they had a debt 60 times their market value. But in both instances, the blame begins and lies at the doorsteps of Chrysler and GM.

Third, the only reason why GM and Chrysler had to go to the feds in the 1st place is because no other institution would lend to them. As with any lender, they are going to want to ensure that they're going to get their money back, and the same practices (and people) that put the company into the ground aren't continuing business as usual, and are going to apply stipulations that can either be accepted or not. If not, then they don't get the cash.

Forth, and most important... and forgotten...
IT'S THE PUBLIC THAT DETERMINES SUCCESS OR FAILURE OF A VEHICLE!

A vehicle that makes money and meets regulations gets to continue, one that doesn't won't. Challenger is in no regulatory danger whatsoever. Even the Hemi V8 gets similar if not better fuel economy as Infiniti's 3.7 V6. CAFE is based on averages of an entire car company's sales. The more Calibers, Avengers, or Sebrings Chrysler sells, the more SRT8 Challengers, SRT8 Chargers, and SRT8 300 can be sold. Fuel economy standards won't threaten the Challenger till the end of next decade. But what DOES threaten Challenger is the same that killed the Magnum.... SALES!

Even if you go back to end of the last muscle car era, it was sales more than anything else that killed the muscle car. The insurence industry slapped a surcharge on all "performance" cars in 1970. Sales plunged like a ton of bricks. By the time lead was removed from gasoline in '72, ending high compression engines, muscle cars were already dead on the sales front. Emissions came in 1973, the fuel crisis in late '73-74, and CAFE kicked in starting in 1977. Muscle cars were long gone well before any of those points.


As pointed out, Challenger sales aren't what was initially projected. That's mainly because of the economy, everyone's hurting. However, the other side of that coin is that compared with other Chrysler cars, the Challenger is actually doing very well. Also, the Dodge Challenger was originally slated for just a 3 year lifespan, it's business case built much along the same lines as the GTO/Monaro was: limited run, sedan based, coupe. I don't know where that 60,000 figure came from, but I recall being told 30-45K by Jason Vines who was Chrysler's media rep.

As a strong selling car and a car that is still very new, Challenger is in no danger until at least the Brampton plant is redone to start making the revised LX cars, and even then it may continue for some time afterwards... if the public keeps buying them, making it worthwhile.

Sergio Marchionne is no dummy. He did a job on GM, walking away with a mountan of money just to let them out of their merger. He's trying to assemble what would turn out to be the world's 2nd largest car company if he pulls in Opel next. He definately isn't going to be able to do that by killing off Opel and Chrysler, and sell nothing but Fiats.

Fiat owns Alfa Romeo, Maseratti, Lancia, and Ferrari.

Fiat becomes a majority owner of Chrysler only when federal loans are repaid, upon which, the feds will pull out.

I wouldn't worry about Fiat killing off any LX cars just yet if the demand (and the money) is still there, and Chrysler still meets CAFE (a certainty if Chrysler can get some decent mid-sized and small cars).

But expect the Sebring & Avenger to be replaced by Fiat based vehicles... and I don't exactly see that as a bad thing.