Four-cylinder Camaro - the miserly muscle car
04-02-2008, 07:07 AM
#11
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RE: Four-cylinder Camaro - the miserly muscle car
Interesting points.
I think that the big V8s days are numbered. As soon as the new CAFE standards go into effect, we will see mostly 4 and 6 cylinder turbo-powered engines in American "muscle cars."
What I thought was interesting was GM's comment about the pricing of the new Camaro.
Lutz said that it will be priced higher than the Mustang but "better equipped". This means that the Challenger's competition will be as follows:
V6 Mustang- $20,235
V6 Camaro- $20,235+
V6 Challenger- low $20s
V8 GT- $26,825
V8 Camaro- $26,825+
If Dodge wants to stay competitive with these cars, it will sell the Challengers for:
SE- $22,000
R/T- $28,000
SRT- $37,000
I think that the big V8s days are numbered. As soon as the new CAFE standards go into effect, we will see mostly 4 and 6 cylinder turbo-powered engines in American "muscle cars."
What I thought was interesting was GM's comment about the pricing of the new Camaro.
Lutz said that it will be priced higher than the Mustang but "better equipped". This means that the Challenger's competition will be as follows:
V6 Mustang- $20,235
V6 Camaro- $20,235+
V6 Challenger- low $20s
V8 GT- $26,825
V8 Camaro- $26,825+
If Dodge wants to stay competitive with these cars, it will sell the Challengers for:
SE- $22,000
R/T- $28,000
SRT- $37,000
04-02-2008, 02:05 PM
#12
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RE: Four-cylinder Camaro - the miserly muscle car
ORIGINAL: RoswellGrey
True. Especially when you consider the original pony cars were NOT muscle cars. They were SPORTS cars. And while we're on the subject, "pony" doesn't refer to the Mustang. It actually refers to the SIZE of the car (originally, pony cars such as the Barracuda, Mustang and Camaro were roughly three-quarters the size of a full-size Plymouth, Ford or Chevrolet). Think of a pony keg, not a Mustang when using the term.
True. Especially when you consider the original pony cars were NOT muscle cars. They were SPORTS cars. And while we're on the subject, "pony" doesn't refer to the Mustang. It actually refers to the SIZE of the car (originally, pony cars such as the Barracuda, Mustang and Camaro were roughly three-quarters the size of a full-size Plymouth, Ford or Chevrolet). Think of a pony keg, not a Mustang when using the term.
)Paladin, I would say you are probably right about them selling more V6s than V8s. The V6 models of the Charger and 300 are outselling the V8s despite the low fuel economy difference and this will probably also be the case as generally V6 sales of the Mustang are the highest seller.
ORIGINAL: 1971Chall
Good points guys. I guess it sounded intriguing for a moment but RLSH700 I would have to agree with the weight thing and overall longetivity. The car would really have to be about 4 - 500lbs lighter to get the same effect. Cost of the turbo motor would also be a consideration. I don't believe this would hurt sales of the Caliber or on the GM end the Solstice/Sky/Cobalt. Different classes of cars. If the 3.5(Maybe the upcoming Phoenix motor) would get some updates you potentially have a 30mpg(highway) car even at the current weight. Direct injection and a 6 speed trans(both manual and auto) would go a long way toward this. Again, I like my V8 and will get a HEMI for sure and I agree it fits the concept of this car better. Just looking at the different ideas so the car can sell in some volume to keep it going. This being an enthusiast board most will want the performance. There are a lot of people out there that like the style but are not interested in maximum performance, just a stylish cruiser.
Good points guys. I guess it sounded intriguing for a moment but RLSH700 I would have to agree with the weight thing and overall longetivity. The car would really have to be about 4 - 500lbs lighter to get the same effect. Cost of the turbo motor would also be a consideration. I don't believe this would hurt sales of the Caliber or on the GM end the Solstice/Sky/Cobalt. Different classes of cars. If the 3.5(Maybe the upcoming Phoenix motor) would get some updates you potentially have a 30mpg(highway) car even at the current weight. Direct injection and a 6 speed trans(both manual and auto) would go a long way toward this. Again, I like my V8 and will get a HEMI for sure and I agree it fits the concept of this car better. Just looking at the different ideas so the car can sell in some volume to keep it going. This being an enthusiast board most will want the performance. There are a lot of people out there that like the style but are not interested in maximum performance, just a stylish cruiser.
Drum roll please...
"With the money I am saving on getting this car, I can spend the same amount on further modifying the car to make it faster and still have money left to spare."
This is why it could cannibalize the sales, on top of the fact that the Camaro would be a more livable choice for everyday driving, can fit more people making it both fun and practical, the larger size makes it safer, and the name Camaro with its history is far more recognizable and impressive than either Solstice and Sky that have only been out for a couple years. As for the Cobalt, it is difficult to say the same favorite line because unlike the two seaters, it is FWD and FWD is a lot more difficult to modify without bad results unlike RWD. Also, many Chevrolet fans who are looking at a Cobalt SS, would likely be willing to pay the extra difference since the Camaro is an icon for Chevrolet, whereas the Cobalt is just a new name to try to make their compact offering seem less dull since the name "Cavalier" does not have a positive association with it after being an uncompetitive car for so long. Again the Camaro will have advantages that will make the potential Cobalt audience to want to upgrade to the Camaro. Basically, its best to keep the powertrains as different
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04-14-2008, 04:00 AM
#13
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RE: Four-cylinder Camaro - the miserly muscle car
VERY NICE its just like in 1970 -1973 the challenger and the 'cuda were the top dogs and even though they were heavy they were stilll taken the pink slips of all chevys and fords and that is why DODGE IS THE TOP DOG AND IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE BEST 1970 meet 2008 I think your related.
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04-15-2008, 02:16 AM
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RE: Four-cylinder Camaro - the miserly muscle car
ok guys, i just had to say something about this article and some of your comments. I know it's long.... just bear with me.
Come on Fellas!!!! U guys cant be seriosly considering this new motion of putting a 4 banger into the challenger..... Ok, taking into consideration that gas prices are going up and we need fuel efficient cars, but this is LUDARCRIS. If u are having so much of a hard time keeping up with inflating gas prices, then GO BUY A PRIUS OR A CIVIC HYBRID. Let's not desicrate a mastepiece that is just reborn. Do you guys realize why the muscle car era came about..... It was 4 people like me and you had a passion for BIG BLOCK V-8's, with plenty of power to make your grandma pee in her panties when u took her to the gorcery store.... I mean there's is a reason why it's called a muscle car and not a rice burner. Dont get me wrong, I have a honda prelude that a love to drive, but on the same notion if i got a chance to trade my honda in for challenger, I would have given the pinks up a long time ago. The gas prices is why im going to keep my honda, but i cant wait till i get my challenger!!!!!! When was the last time you walked out to your garage and looked at your honda and said "MAN THAT"S A SEXY CAR"?...... No real auto enthusiate will. Now Let's imagine if you had a 71 Challenger in it's place. Every time you would have walked by it, your eyes would wander over the muscular body lines. To hear the roar of the V-8 firing up would give you a boner!!!!!!!!!!! Hell if i could have sex with it........, well you know what i mean. And if you guys are not fired up by now, let me walk you through a regular day event that most guys go through on a regular day basis. Let's say if you pulled up to a stoplight. And beside you sat a 69 MUSTANG BOSS 429..... Just bubbling, rocking side to side, and you can smell the fuel in the air!!!!! Now i dont care what your Gender, Age, or Ethnicity you are. Whether u say this out loud or in your head, it's gonna go something like this "MAN I WISH I WAS THE DRIVER BEHIND THAT BEAUTIFUL BEAST". Now if that didn't give you a tent in your pants, Then you need to go rent a copy of "BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN", cause I can't help u out. I mean seriosely fellas, i wake up everyday wishing i was alive back in muscle car era. Walk down the street with CUDAS, MUSTANGS, CHEVELLS, JUDGES, NOVAS, CAMAROS, CORVETTES, ......etc, parked on either side of the streets. WOW just thinking about it makes me......Gime a second to regain my thoughts. Whew!!! maybe some of you guys don't see it in the perspective that i see it in, and then again maybe you do. All im trying to say guys is that muscle cars had character. If you owned one people knew you by your car. It was a piece of YOU. Of your character. And nobody would be able to argue otherwise. I mean cars these days are lacking that character. That UNIQUE personality that makes a car special. The just don't build them like they used to. Ever heard of the saying "OLD IS GOLD." And from a financial perspective, some classic orignals are worth 4x to 5x times what they were worth when brand new. When was the last time you saw your honda prices inflate that much. It won' t be in my lifetime. Maybe i'm just rambling but i hope a few or most of your have a diiferent perspective on muscle cars and hopefully all you guys go out there and buy a brand new DODGE CHALLENGER WITH 6.1 LITRE HEMI W/ 425HP and when we pass each other one the street, just nod with a smile on your face
REMEMBER THERE IS NO REPLACEMEMT FOR DISPLACEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on Fellas!!!! U guys cant be seriosly considering this new motion of putting a 4 banger into the challenger..... Ok, taking into consideration that gas prices are going up and we need fuel efficient cars, but this is LUDARCRIS. If u are having so much of a hard time keeping up with inflating gas prices, then GO BUY A PRIUS OR A CIVIC HYBRID. Let's not desicrate a mastepiece that is just reborn. Do you guys realize why the muscle car era came about..... It was 4 people like me and you had a passion for BIG BLOCK V-8's, with plenty of power to make your grandma pee in her panties when u took her to the gorcery store.... I mean there's is a reason why it's called a muscle car and not a rice burner. Dont get me wrong, I have a honda prelude that a love to drive, but on the same notion if i got a chance to trade my honda in for challenger, I would have given the pinks up a long time ago. The gas prices is why im going to keep my honda, but i cant wait till i get my challenger!!!!!! When was the last time you walked out to your garage and looked at your honda and said "MAN THAT"S A SEXY CAR"?...... No real auto enthusiate will. Now Let's imagine if you had a 71 Challenger in it's place. Every time you would have walked by it, your eyes would wander over the muscular body lines. To hear the roar of the V-8 firing up would give you a boner!!!!!!!!!!! Hell if i could have sex with it........, well you know what i mean. And if you guys are not fired up by now, let me walk you through a regular day event that most guys go through on a regular day basis. Let's say if you pulled up to a stoplight. And beside you sat a 69 MUSTANG BOSS 429..... Just bubbling, rocking side to side, and you can smell the fuel in the air!!!!! Now i dont care what your Gender, Age, or Ethnicity you are. Whether u say this out loud or in your head, it's gonna go something like this "MAN I WISH I WAS THE DRIVER BEHIND THAT BEAUTIFUL BEAST". Now if that didn't give you a tent in your pants, Then you need to go rent a copy of "BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN", cause I can't help u out. I mean seriosely fellas, i wake up everyday wishing i was alive back in muscle car era. Walk down the street with CUDAS, MUSTANGS, CHEVELLS, JUDGES, NOVAS, CAMAROS, CORVETTES, ......etc, parked on either side of the streets. WOW just thinking about it makes me......Gime a second to regain my thoughts. Whew!!! maybe some of you guys don't see it in the perspective that i see it in, and then again maybe you do. All im trying to say guys is that muscle cars had character. If you owned one people knew you by your car. It was a piece of YOU. Of your character. And nobody would be able to argue otherwise. I mean cars these days are lacking that character. That UNIQUE personality that makes a car special. The just don't build them like they used to. Ever heard of the saying "OLD IS GOLD." And from a financial perspective, some classic orignals are worth 4x to 5x times what they were worth when brand new. When was the last time you saw your honda prices inflate that much. It won' t be in my lifetime. Maybe i'm just rambling but i hope a few or most of your have a diiferent perspective on muscle cars and hopefully all you guys go out there and buy a brand new DODGE CHALLENGER WITH 6.1 LITRE HEMI W/ 425HP and when we pass each other one the street, just nod with a smile on your face
REMEMBER THERE IS NO REPLACEMEMT FOR DISPLACEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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