ORIGINAL: Jeremiah 29:11

Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?

I just think that should be reserved for the aftermarket and larger displacement should be for the production model.

ORIGINAL: RLSH700


[Another thing that is important to remember is that GM generally sets up their engines and transmissions to use taller gearing than most other manufacturers so this isn't too surprising. Although you may be correct about when they are just cruising it will yield an advantage, the issue at hand is that will do very little to help them with the CAFE standards from what I understand. The CAFE standards are based significantly off of the "official" EPA sticker ratings. If those ratings say it does no better than a V8, it's not going to help them. Will it help the customers who drive them? If what your saying is correct, then yes. The other thing is under current use of technology the forced air-induction systems are not being paired up with a multi-displacement systems, and that has the same basic effect of when not being used at full power it really can yield some significant advantages. Our administrator has mentioned many times about how his in-laws were able to get 30mpg with a 300C, but that does little to help Chrysler with the Government because their system says 25 (or 23 by the new standards). Also I have talked to many owners of the last F-body cars (Firebird and Camaro owners) and many of them have claimed that the old ratings they had up to 28mpg was accurate, so I don't know how much better off a person would be with the forced air induction route anyways. I don't know any one who owns the current Vettes or any other models so I can't testify about those per say. I will admit I don't know enough results of forced air inducted cars to make a judgment call about what mileage they get so someone else will have to add that one.

I believe part of the reason why the LS engines do so well in fuel efficiency besides weight and gearing is the compression ratios. The LS2 had a 10.9 to 1 compression, the LS7 has about a 11.1 to 1 or 11.0 to 1 (depending on the source). The 5.7L Hemi currently has a 9.6 to 1, the 6.1L has a 10.3 to 1 in comparison. The Viper's V10 improved significantly from 19 to 22 (using the new standards) thanks to the VCT, the increased compression (from 9.6 to 1 to 10.2), and the updated TR-6060 from the old T-56 transmission, despite the slight displacement increase. If Chrysler would start to use taller gearing, I think that would really help them out a lot on the 6.1L because it really has short gearing currently, no thanks to the MB built transmission's .83 overdrive, plus it is not a very fuel efficient design to begin with.

I will agree that people will be satisfied with its power, it is just a one upping game is all. We want to one up the Mustang is all. I'm sure you understand that. I look forward to your response as I'm enjoying this conversation as well. I like a challenge(r) especially when the person's points are logical and civil, which you do an excellent job of filling that criteria.

ORIGINAL: 1971Chall

Thanks for the comments RLHS700. I have been off the board a couple of days. We just had the Autorama here in Detroit over the weekend. Surpisingly we didn't have a new Challenger on display at the Mopar booth. I was hoping we would have had a pilot SRT-8 there just for review. I spoke with one of my guys and he said that was the question everyone was asking. We did have a real nice 1970 Challenger there and a couple of LX cars. If you weren't awware the Autorama is basically a custom/muslecar/streetcar/performance car show. A lot of everything is there and geared strictly to the enthusiast. I will post out a little later under the engine section but check out the June issue of Mopar Action. They tested an SRT-8 Magnum stock and then with some bolt ons. They got it to run 12.92 and one pass a 12.80. Not sure of the 12.8 was a fluke though. They reflashed it with a Predator hand held programmer and some exhaust work. I think they also used a CAI and had the car down to the 12.20s at almost 112mph. Real good article and again highlights why the Challenger won't be a weak sister. Thanks for the comments also. Hey, I'm just a car guy like most everybody that is on these boards. I wish I knew it all but that unfortunately is not the case, lol. I have been fortunate to be able to enjoy this hobby and I want others to do so too. Like most everything else, if there's little support it goes away. It's good there are different choices too as it would be no fun if the world were all one car or another. Anytime I can share anything I will. Jeremiah, to answer your question I say it's harder(super/turbo) on an engine from the aspect that you are asking it to produce a lot more HP from the same displacement. A purpose built motor will last for sure but it's definitely easier on an engine to produce 1hp per cube NA then to ask a smaller motor to make the same power level.

they can be harder on the engine than a supercharger.

The issue is I would rather have say a 6.4L or 6.5L that produces 500hp or better than supercharge an engine to get it as you always have that power.

For example, if the belt was removed from the supercharger

ORIGINAL: Jeremiah 29:11

Yes, but you can have a 6.5L that is already very strong to take this kind of abuse and add an induction system to it and have a real monster.

Then engine would not work since there is no way to get it air to the intake.

but don't expect them to have both standard especially with the CAFE standards coming up. I would rather reserve this for the aftermarket as it will cost less to purchase first. What I'm saying is that it will have a shorter life than a NA engine.

Actually there are cases where people have done that and they do work just not as well.

The simple fact is your then depending on two factors that will grow weaker with age and wear out.

ORIGINAL: Jeremiah 29:11

I totally agree with that. Yes, I certainly do not expect Dodge to put both in. What I am saying is that don't take a V-6 engine add a induction system
to get the larger HP since it will put stress on the engine that is not designed for that stress and wear it out quicker. Get larger engine to start with.

That I would like to see. Without the belt to turn the lobes on the supercharger, there is not way get the air into the engine.

Well shoot I have that problem myself. I am getting weaker with age and am wearing out........at least that is what my wife tells me.