Challenger vs Camaro?
 

I've always been a Dodge fan... Had a Ram for the past 8 years that I really loved! Two months ago I traded it in (very hard to do...lol) for a new Challenger R/T. So far I love it..I get lots of looks and compliments. Now I see that the Camaro is suppsed to be coming out soon so I did some comparisions. The V6 Camaro is sipposed to be as fast if not a bit faster than my V8 Challenger.... and the V8 Camaro is supposed to be almost twice as fast as my Challenger. 0-60 around 6 seconds for the Challenger R/T vs 4.3 seconds for the Camaro??? The V8 Camaro also costs the same as the Challenger R/T. I hate to say it.. but this has me thinking about trading in my new Challenger. Am I missing something? I heard all this talk about the Challenger and thought I had a really fast ride... but compared to the Camaro I feel like I am driving a Yugo! Are these just a bunch of BS numbers cause there are more Chevy fans than Dodge fans out there? Anything I can do to get my Challenger up into the speeds of the Camaro? I was looking into a cat-back exhaust, CAI and probably the Diablo Predator... but this can't help enough to take me from 0-60 in 6 seconds to 0-60 in 4.3 seconds can it?!? Is Dodge just really inferior? I would fight normally fight anyone that would say that to me.. lol but numbers are numbers?!? Anyone have any insight into this? I love my Dodge and would hate to get rid of it.... turn into just another Chevy fan... but I like SPEED too! And 40K for a SRT8 is out of my price range and the Camaro is supposedly still faster than that anyways! Blah... think I am gonna cry! lol :P

A few points

6 seconds is at the longest end of the acceleration time, many have the Challenger down at the low 5 sec range on the R/T. In order for any car to be "twice as fast" the acceleration time would have to be half the time (which would be around 2-3 secs on the 0-60 times); therefore, it isn't twice as fast. There is a gap between the Camaro V8 and Challenger R/T and it would probably take more than exhaust changes, CAI, and other simple changes. Let's wait and see how the Camaro matches up though in a head-to-head show down. C&D had times of 4.6 secs and 4.8 secs with the Camaro V8 and 5.9 secs with the V6. The Challenger R/T did 5.1 secs for the R/T; therefore, the two V8s are closer than what it looks like at first. The Challenger is a fast car, the GM just waited longer to adjust accordingly. In a year or so Dodge might repay the favor.

Also, the times I have read about the V6 Camaro lead me to believe that a Challenger R/T will still come out on top in the acceleration times and furthermore if the lackluster quality of the HF engine continues with the added bonus of even higher compression and brand new GDI technology, the Hemi should easily out live this V6.

The Challenger is going to have trouble leading the Camaro in the first place because the Challenger is a larger car than the Camaro. If the truth were to be told, the Challenger should have been named "Charger" as it is a size bigger than the Camaro.

Despite popular belief, there is more to a pony car than just performance. If performance was the only thing, GM would have won the last round in the pony car war. I can say that I'd never be caught dead driving the new Camaro as it still looks strange.

The fact of the matter is GM has continued in their tradition in the follower's strategy of waiting for the competition to show their hand, then adjusting their hand in the game and playing accordingly.

I'd keep it.

Hmmm..... a V6 Camaro - faster than a HEMI V8? And the V8 Camaro 0-60 in 4.3?
Wherever you're living, PLEASE send me some of that FatBud you guys are smoking! I don't care HOW MUCH it costs - I want some!!!
And if you're considering trading in your new Challenger for one of these mythical hyper-performing Camaros - based on these numbers you're quoting, I'd be interested in making you an offer. I can invent small numbers too.

If the performance and styling of the Challenger isn't enough for you, I'd suggest you get a motorcycle with a 100 shot of NOs, drag chute, and wheelie bars. There's far more to a muscle car than (fictional) numbers.
The Camaro is ugly, the interior is cheap, it has no rear leg/cargo room, and the numbers you're stating are completely fictional. It's like dumping your respectable girlfriend for the promise of the slutty girl at school (everyone wants a ride just to see what it's like, but no one really wants to take it home for Mama or the neighbors to see). In the end, you hope your girlfriend will forgive your lack of self control and take you back.

Whoa, where is this data coming from? I know the Camaro is pretty small, but a 304HP V6 beating a 425 hemi is hard to believe.

He's talking about a Challenger R/T which produces either 372hp or 376hp not the 425 SRT-8.

I find falseness in some of the statements. Price being one of them. Lets wait and see what the price will bring for the Camaro... I know what they want. But its what they get that matters. I think they try to compare price per price. SS vs R/t. It should be top of the line SS to SRT-8. They are more evenly matched. They have no problem comparing a ZR-1 to a Viper with $25,000 difference. So they should compare an SS to an SRT-8. As an R/T owner I will have no problem comparing my skills to the skills of an SS driver. He should have no problem handing me my butt on a street jount. But we'll see what the under dog does as I have seen times by very talented R/T owners in 13.1 quarter times. Not the norm by far but very much a reality in the right hands. I stand by my statements as it being a drivers race for the most part. I went to the Camaro web sight to read what they think. Most were in agreement with me as to it being a drivers race. Some as with all forums will not be beaten because the #s say they should win. But thats why we race to see what the real world figures are. 3:92 gears for us and a great launch... they will need those 426 HP to try and run us down. Good job Chevy for getting your guys a Camaro they can be proud of. But I'm a Dodge guy and I will continue to stand up for our brand. Don't get me started on the Mustang... those boys do live in a dream world.

It's hardly a "dream world". People have posted times down into the low 13s with mustang GTs. Driver mod + CAI/Tune and there you have it.

Man that was quick. I posted that knowing how defensive the Mustang guys are. And I guess if I had the stage alone for a few years I might also. But the facts are there excluding the 2010 Mustang. I get the reply from Mustang guys that "we are close if not better than the R/T and then put the SRT-8 into the fray also. The 2010 might be a great Mustang in the performance department. But when I hear that the R/T would struggle against the 2003 ect. Mustang GT I have to laugh. I have not found a GT of this gen. that is close. Even with intake and exhaust as most have, they are slower than a stock R/T. But the 5.3 2010 might be the real deal. Just think that we need to keep it real. When modded cars are compared then its just who can spend the most money. I like Camaros and Mustangs. I just think that some are easier to goad into an unreal stance. I hope to post some 1/4 mile times in my R/T soon. But as of now I only have what I have seen on the street. This R/T attracts Mustangs here in the Charlotte area and they have left with a better understaning of what an R/T is capable of. I guess the Mustang guys around here do not like sharing the pony car road. But as I have posted before... when they outrun me I will give them their due.

Before mods I think I had a 4.61 on evic with my SRT8.
Next Sunday weather permitting I will be at track.

Simply untrue. I've seen the proof. You need to read the right forums. ;)

http://mustangforums.com/forum/membe...icanspeed.html
CAI+tune only 12.877 @ 106.79 w/ 1.819

That's with a manual too btw.

Just one person right off the cuff. There are others who have done similarly. So if people can bring up Tony and his 13.1 w/o air filter run, regardless of whether it's typical or not which it isn't, I can do the same. In the interest of fairness ofcourse.

It's not about being defensive either. It's about being factual. IMO it is a driver's race between the stock RT and the stock GT mustang with the RT having a slight advantage.

the fact is the mustang is faster per$ you spend on it....the hemis are really pricey to mod...

Look closely at what you wrote " CAI+tune only 12.877 @ 106.79 w/ 1.819" With tune being very important. Diablo chip with the tune is another beast entirely. Adding more fuel and higher shift points makes loads more power. That is why stock for stock is the only way to test these cars. And that is why I said "after mods its who wants to throw the most money at it". So 2009 to 2009. Stock for stock. The Challenger has alot of potential as does the Mustang when you start modding. The facts will be what they are. No matter how you spin it or me. 13.1 shows what is possible for the R/T in the right hands. Even SS owners want to compare to the R/T and not the similar SRT-8. We'll see, we'll see.

Stock for stock it's extremely close with the RT holding a slight advantage. And by slight I mean one, maybe two tenths. People have pulled 13.3 on a stock mustang if you know where to look. Typical? Ofcourse not. But then neither is 13.1 in an RT.

Regarding what's a "fair" comparison or not haven't we all seen this huge gray area argued a million times over? Considering you can get a brand new mustang GT out the door for 22-24K right now perhaps we should compare it to the Challenger SE?

All depends on how you want to go about drawing comparisons as far as who "wins" or not. It's debatable what is the most fair way to go about these things.

But you need to remeber that the Mustang has been out for 4 years. the Challenger R/T ans SE have only been out for one. That's why the mustang is cheaper. Ford has gotten the efficiency of building a Mustang down to a cheap science. So give Dodge a year or two.(if they're still around)

BTW, I'm not calling the Mustang cheap or underdone. But affordable.

This is a Camaro verses Challenger thread,quit talkin about the joke of an engine 4.6 puny.puke. I have been drag and street racing since the 70,s. If the #,s of the Camaro are correct,(weight,h.p.,ect.) then the Camaro,maybe only temporaraly, will be king. The old drag racin adage was,you gain a tenth of a second for every 100# you lose if every thing stays the same. I didn,t like the look of the new Camaro when it was first introduced,I now love the back,don,t care for the front,and by the post the other day of the yellow one in the rain,the side angle don,t do anything for me.But the Challenger looks down right awesome at all angles.I am big on h.p.,and still have alot of big number muscle,but I think I will forgo some stock h.p. and still stay with the Challenger.I will probably get a Classic this year. In this case,I think looks over rule gross h.p. Just my 2 cents.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!! Ridge.I don't care if the Camaro was pullin 12 sec 1/4 mile times I just plain don't and haven't since the concept like the looks of it.My Challenger is GORGEOUS and no Camaro or Mustang can compare.

Exactly....Stang or Camaro...hardly retro...

It must make you pretty uncomfortable to talk about it. You know. Seeing as how your beloved 5.7L hemi can barely take the thing in a race.

Back on topic. Personally I think the Camaro looks pretty ugly. But I'll reserve final judgement until I see it in person.

PS: I wasn't the one who brought up the mustang in the first place. Trash was talked but not by me.

[QUOTE=tdub2112;69313]But you need to remeber that the Mustang has been out for 4 years. the Challenger R/T ans SE have only been out for one. That's why the mustang is cheaper. Ford has gotten the efficiency of building a Mustang down to a cheap science. So give Dodge a year or two.(if they're still around).QUOTE]

You have to remember, however, that even though the Challenger R/T has only been out for 1 year, the 5.7 (although a lower hp version) has been out for several years in other models, like the Charger.

I will go back to the subject Camaro vs. Challenger. I guess we'll see on the streets which one does what. As for other pony cars we'll try to be more sensitive. I find the Mustang boys to be real easy to rouse. Maybe when the 5.3 puts down some good #s without being supercharged they will lighten up and be comfortable with what it is.

I thought you were going to back to the subject? Just couldn't resist one last quip could you. LOL

Considering the meager performance differential between the R/T and the GT - it's actually kind of embarrassing for Dodge.

Of the 3 "retro" cars the challenger is the best looking IMO. The mustang has the best interior of the two in keeping with the theme.

Your getting to know me too well. Yeah that was one more jab. And the performance of the 5.7 is really amazing. 390 HP out of 345 cubes is really unreal. Compared to the best stock 340 from 70 @ 290 hp... thats 100 hp more. I think the weight of the Challenger is its achiles heel. But I really enjoy that girth on the highway. Makes for a smooth ride. I think most would agree with you on the styling. Nod to the Challengers exterior and a nod to the Mustangs interior. I guess we should give a nod to the Camaros 426 hp.

I agree with the motortrend article. The Challenger is a GREAT cruiser. And for a long highway trip especially with anyone in the back it is the obvious choice. Corner carver it is not but then it wasn't really one of those back in the seventies either.

390 out of 345. Consider too that back in the seventies they rated those engines in gross horsepower. 390 now is more than 390 back then. I'm guessing by at least a good 8%.

I have a 70 and that is true about the handling. But it would be true for the Camaro and Mustang too. The Trans-am would be your car of choice in the 70s for handling and braking and it packed quite a punch engine wise too. Man these are the days... I really look forward to driving my R/T each time I get in and turn the key. Motor Trend shows us that each car is better than their 70s namesake and deliver it in spades. I look forward to seeing the 2010 GT and SS on the street and don't think for a moment I won't goad one into a little stoplight to stoplight.

I'll play with an SS on the street if/when I see one,but I have no reservations about beating it with my SRT unless I come into some money between then and now.As for a cruiser,yes the Challenger would make a GREAT road car for 2 people unless you're shorter than 5'11".I'm 6'3" and my seat is touching the back seat so NOBODY is getting behind me :-)

I test drove a R/T today.I took my dad to pick up his new Caliber SXT today in sunburst orange.They had a titanium R/T on the lot that a salesman was drivin.I liked it,pulled strong shifted quick and sharp.I was impressed.It has the makins of bein a legend.

not even remotely true if you are also taking the LS engines into account considering this is a challenger vs camaro thread...

how is it not true?

go look how much it cost to swap 410 gears into a mustang and the cost to do the same to a lx car.

it is one of the downsides to our cars. but hopefully in the coming years it will get cheaper.

when you sell alot of a car there is bigger aftermarket for it, which equals more competition, lower prices. the hemis are getting there but still pricey. And the Ls engines get more power from mods then we do. look at a cam change on a ls3...got 50 hp.

Before my brother moved to Kansas last year, he worked the 10 years previous at an auto machine shop. They do performance and stock rebuilds. I asked him how good the newer Hemis were and how easy was the rebuild. Rebuild heads, over bore ect. He had never saw a Hemi in for a rebuild. 10 years and no Hemi. I think that speaks volumes to how well put together the new Hemis are. Said he did alot of magnums and LTs. As well as 4.6s and LS1s. But never saw a Hemi... gotta love that.

Sales figures probably account for some of that. GM sells a lot more cars than Chrysler.

If that were entirely true, and his brother has seen NO HEMI rebuilds - LLC is either making one hell of a durable and reliable powerplant, or they've sold NO HEMIs.
I'll bet on the former and not the latter.
:)

Originally Posted by kevin2323
the fact is the mustang is faster per$ you spend on it....the hemis are really pricey to mod...

ok explain this then,how can I get a ProCharger Supercharger for $4500 and make the same horsepower as the GT500,when for $4500 a regular GT wouldn't even come close

because your using the 6.1 engine not the smaller 4.6 or 5.4 engine...im speaking overall parts for the stang are cheaper than the hemis ....not knocking our stuff at all.

It has always and will forever cost more to "hot rod" a Mopar compared to the more numerous Chevy's and Ford...it's just a fact of life that we Mopar owners have to accept.
But, we start out with a better package, so that helps.

$4500? That would pay for a Vortech V3 non IC and installation plus dyno tune from brenspeed. You're looking at a bare minimum of 400rwhp at that point. GT500 territory? Not quite, but damn close.

I don't think we should even include mods in bench racing. Once those enter the arena, only timeslips or direct competition have much validity. Statements like: "I can easily pick up (insert necessary number here for sake of argument) hp with a chip, intake, exhaust," are good for forum arguments, but unless you buy the components, put them in, and dyno the car, you don't really know if that's true for the particular parts, installation, and engine that you have.

So far it seems like the Mustang and Challenger are very close, and would be a driver's race.

Camaro, based on weight/hp and hp/$ looks like the winner by pure numbers.

But I only care about that a little. The Challenger is just a much cooler car.

Oh I agree but someone else brought up the whole mod "debate". Clearly the mustang is the best bang for the buck right now in that department. Buy a new one for 24 grand, dump another 10 into it, and you're faster than a GT500.

But you are right that there is more to a car than how fast it can go for x dollars. Aesthetics are important. Very important. If I thought a car was ugly as piss I wouldn't want it. Porsche comes to mind there. Just ugly ass frog cars. I can't stand the front ends and those headlights. I don't give a crap how fast it is I wouldn't want one.

But the SRT-8 Challenger and SS Camaro would be a toss up despite what the Chevy boys believe. It will be sweet to see these two go at it.