RoswellGrey

I really wish they'd bring back the cubic inch displacement rating instead of using liters. It would be cool if they had insignia on the hood like the 440 Magnum, 383 Magnum or 426 Hemi badges on the 1970 models. 345 Hemi looks much cooler (not to mention BIGGER) than 5.7 Hemi. This is America, dammit. We should stick with a perfectly good measuring system devised in England.

Jeremiah 29:11

Unfortunately, we are the only ones in the world who use it. of course except our engineers and scientist who went to metric decades ago.

BootCamp

I believe the "no post" you folks refer to between the front and back side windows is what used to be the distinction between a "hardtop" and a "sedan" (post between the front and rear windows).
We tend to think of sedans now as four door cars. But I remember growing up during the muscle car era (my Father owned more than a few muscle cars), my Father pointed out the difference between the hardtop and the sedan (regardless of how many doors the car had), and the reinforcement necessary to stiffen the car in case of a roll-over. We see similar frame/body reinforcements made for convertible models offered now, as well as integrated roll-bars.
Two seaters or 2+2 seating cars were referred to as "coupes", where the car was sportier, and the rear seats were more an afterthought than a car that could seat four (fairly) comfortably.

A hardtop always looks better than a sedan, whether it has two doors or four. It gives the car a "chopped-top look".....but that's just MY opinion (and we all know about opinions)!

Jeremiah 29:11

Well, here goes my opinion. That no post in the middle is also known as the "B Pillar" which is used to support the rear doors.

Without it, the only door you can have are suicide doors which are hinged in the rear below the "C Pillar".

I think the reason people "think of sedans as four door cars" is because 2 door cars these days rarely have rear seats, obviously the Mustang
being an exception. Yes, a hardtop always looks better because you get rid of the "B Pillar" and the the rear doors that go along with it.

Can anybody think of a hardtop (in other words without a "B Pillar") with 4 doors? Please let me know.

BootCamp

Currently in production? Nope, can't think of one.
In past production? Sure.....quite a few - without suicide doors. Here's just a few links:
1959 Pontiac Catalina
1959 Cadillac DeVille
1962 Buick Electra
1962 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1963 Chevrolet Impala
1963 Chrysler Imperial
1966 Cadillac Fleetwood
1966 Chrysler Imperial Crown
1966 Ford LTD (like my Dad's, but his was Maroon)
1967 Pontiac LeMans
1968 Chrysler Newport
1968 Chrysler Imperial LeBaron
These were all cars with full frames, not unibody construction.....that's why we don't see four door hard tops like these any more. The B pillar didn't go to the roof, but was supported completely by the floor/frame.
Here's a kicker for ya.....a four door convertible - non-suicide doors:
1940 Mercury (by Edsel) Convertible.

As I said in the other post,

Jeremiah 29:11

What an excellent list. I should have prefaced it by saying current cars only. But that is okay, this will make a good reference for future discussion.

One thing is for sure, these are definitely "boat anchors" which is my personal reference to being heavy cars.

They certainly don't make cars like that any more. I remember the falcon station wagon we used to have and somebody ran into us.

There was not dent what so ever, but it really made a mess out of his car.

By the way have you read the post about the government trying to mandate to make car companies to make the roof stronger because so many people get killed in rollovers. I would okay an aestheically pleasing integrated roll cage even it it cost a few dollars more.

pixelmeow

I totally agree with you on that. My father had a Plymouth Fury III, and the thing on the front center of the hood had "383" on it. I know what *that* means, but this litre stuff is hard to translate. I don't recall where else on that car the "383" might have appeared.

Also, about the "coupe", I drive a Honda Accord coupe, and it's 2 door, but of course the back windows don't go down. It's got the look of the center bar. But it's the sportier model, and with the V6, the closest I could get to what I'd like to have but with better gas mileage. The closest that I like the LOOK of, I should say..

I think of a "sedan" as a four-door, family type car. I don't know the differences in roofs you guys are talking about, can you give me some examples?

BootCamp

Hardtops were cars without the B-pillar extending up to the roofline, but rather, made just long enough to support the door hinge/jamb so that when the front and rear windows were open, there was an unobstructed opening from the windshield post to the rear window support. The B-pillar was short (half-height?), attached to the frame, was very rigid, and aptly supported the rear door hinges.
Four doors are no longer hardtops (but really sedans) since modern cars utilize unibody construction (not frames, per se), which integrate the B-pillar as part of the roof support in case of a rollover. The modern incarnation of the Charger is one example. When you open all of the windows, the opening between the front and rear windows is interrupted by the B-pillar, which supports the roof and the hinge for the rear door. Most manufacturers paint or black chrome the B-pillar window frame to make the four door sedans LOOK like the old hardtops. But when the windows are down, there's NO mistaking a sedan for a hardtop.
The difference is easy to see when you compare them side by side.
Here's a 2006 Dodge Charger four door sedan. Here's a 1967 Pontiac LeMans four door hardtop.
See the difference?

BTW......the 2008 Challenger prototype is a two door hardtop (although Dodge states that it's a coupe, having only 2 doors) - there's no B-pillar rising to the roofline between the door window and the rear side window. When the front and back side windows are down, it's a continuous opening from the windshield posts to the rear windshield roof supports.
............the Ford Mustang is a two door coupe (2 doors). What makes it a coupe is that the rear window doesn't go down, and the back seats are more an after thought than intended for use for comfortable seating for two adults. It's more like the old 2+2 configuration. If the B-pillar wasn't fixed (to the roofline) immediately behind the front door, and the rear window operated, it would be a two door hardtop.
Again, you can compare; The 2008 Challenger two door hardtop (scroll down to boredout's post - thankyou!), and the 2006 Mustang GT 2 door coupe.

Keep in mind, the "hardtop", "coupe" "sedan" and "2+2" references I use are by the old standard, based on window/B-pillar configuration. Modern references are that 2 doors are all coupes and 4 doors are all sedans - simply because of the number of doors.

pixelmeow

Thanks BootCamp, that makes complete sense. I've always just known them as 4-door and 2-door; this coupe and hard-top terminology is new to me. Coupe since I got my car, and hard-top either today or so long ago I just don't remember it. Maybe it has been hard-top v. convertible for me? I dunno. At least I know what a roll bar is. [sm=happy046.gif]

gojoe283

B"H

One true 4 door hardtop with Unibodyconstruction that comes to mind, is the 1965-67 Corvair Sport Sedan. It was a true 4 door hardtop with unit body construction, and was available in both Monza and 500 trim levels.

Also, the full xize MoPar cars, like Dodge and Plymouth, were true unibody 4 door hardtops as well...Bill H.