kelly

This is my rebuttal against the stealth naysayers cough, cough, RSLH700, cough, cough!

Since 1942, there has been lots of anti-japanese sentiment in the products they make. Take a gentleman named Iwasaki Yataro. He started a little shipping firm in the 1870s in Japan. This company began to diversify-shipbuilding, eletronics, and in 1934, heavy equipment. By this time, the company built up so much power, that many of the top executives were in the Japanese Cabinet!

This company took a design from a racer Howard Hughes built (HK-1 Racer--anybody remember the silver plane in Aviator that ran out of gas?), but instead in rendering it in aluminum like the HK-1, this machine was made of bamboo and rice paper! Another engineering marvel was its 13-cylinder radial engine, which was believed to never be feasible to run. This little plane that outran and outmanuvered everything (well, until the P-40 and the Hellcats came along later in the war) was named Zero-Sen, or the year of it's inception 5700 (for us anglo folks that would be 1940).

Now, after the war, thanks to sanctions placed againt its government by other countries, Japan was limited in what it could produce, so many of these companies were limited into what it produced. Datsun tried selling cars in 1959, but thanks to a war fresh in people's minds, the company didn't really take off unitil Mr. K and his Fairlady Z took the automotive world by storm eleven years later.

Now back to the Zero. If you didn't figure it out, the industrial conglomerate that crafted that machine was our "beloved" Mitsubishi. They got planes together pretty well, but it has taken them until 1980 to get a selling automobile over here. Intresting fact: Last year was Mitsu's 25 year campaign...Do the math with this one, folks- our Sapporo and Challengers were introduced as Plymouths and Dodges one year before Mitsus were sold as Mitsus!

Now, Mitsu is going strong as ever...I can't remember when they were acquired by the DCX monster, but off the top of my head, I want to say mid-eighties, and only the automotive division, I could be wrong...DCX has let mitsu run fairly autonomously, as Benz did with Frieghtliner since 1981...

Thanks to the Fast and Furious tuner car revolution, the brand loyalty with the Diamond star is strong. The competition is running scared with the EVO VIII, a master's thesis of a work in progress since the eighties. That car is a balanced package, and can whip a Lambo's ass for a basement-bargain price...And I have seen it done, and the Lambo driver knew what he was doing!

Alright, enough historical babble...I got on a tangent and started straying. So Mitsu has the engineering capability. Mitsu is kinda part Dodge. Now, take a 1991 Camaro. Does it have intelligent 4 wheel steering? Nope. All wheel drive? Those cars like it in the rear, pun intended! Adjustable height suspension at the touch of a button? Not exactly. Take even the RS or the SS, and those monsters don't come close! Don't get me started a 1991 Mustang, with it's Fox-Bodied goodness that graced those cars from 1979 up until last year when they changed the body style...Ford is pretty good about taking an idea and holding it for years...(Quick side note resto-rod idea: Take a big late seventies Lincoln TC, throw on some huge wires-24" Daytons-, and take the modern 4.6, suspension and All Wheel Discs off a wrecked Mercury, TC or Crown Vic-it will all bolt in-can you say PIMP MOBILE!!!). The Town Car, Crown Vic, and Gran Marquis/Murader all share the same platform and have since the Fox-body days of the late seventies...I am not even sure that a '91 V6 'Stang even has rear discs!

Now, take that FauxPar that I am championing here...It basically has the Camaro and Mustang beat on the playing field, save for one thing-The hearts of the American Public. I could go on a speal about our pony cars (did anyone notice that the Stealth was going for the same market our beloved Challenger was g

Jeremiah 29:11

I used to work for a Japanese company here in the US. I had asked them specifically about the Mitsubushi 3000GT. The said, in general the Mitusubishi and including the 3000GT was not considered a reliable product. Remember Mitusbishi is a billion dollar conglomerate that also makes ship, buses, trains, etc..

What do these Japanese executive drive in the US while they live here.


Toyota Camrys.

RLSH700

Kelly let me inform you about my stance on a few companies before you accuse me of being a racist against the Japanese. One of my favorite mid-sized cars is the Nissan Altima with the VQ 3.5L 24 valve V6 DOHC. That engine is powerful, reliable, and fuel efficient. The interior might not be the best in its class but it is hardly cheap by any exent of the imagination. Anther favorite is the Honda Accord because the leather interior is one of the nicest in its class. My favorite compact is the Mazda 3. The styling is one of the best by far on both interior and exterior as well are very roomy. One of my favorite compact coupes from the mid to late nineties was the Mitsubishi Eclipse/Eagle Talon. The styling was excellent as was the speed.

So I'm a racist because I prefer the Mustang and Firebird to the 3000GT am I? Excuse the crap out of me from having a bad feelings towards the 3.0L Mitsubishi after my family has had trouble with every 3.0L Mitsubishi we had. Also a friend had a 3000GT and he had non-stop problems. First the steering rack failed, then the air-shock struts blew, then the transmission gave him problems, then the engine failed. Another friend right after he got it the transmission failed and I believe he also had engine problems. Now don't I have the right to think badly of a car if in each situation where I saw it being used, it failed? I mentioned that the Mustang 3.8L is an unreliable engine, I think I am at least being fair in that I don't always give the domestic car a free ride.

Excuse me for prefering a traditional V8 over a turbocharged V6, but from my observations a forced air induction engine costs more to maintain and normally doesn't last as long. Am I wrong for not wanting to pay less?

Yes the 3000GT has the AWD and four-wheel steering and those are innovative technologies, but the simple fact is I don't want them. I'm not going to do any serious racing so I really don't need the four-wheel steering and I would prefer not to have it because in my mind it is another thing to break. I don't need the AWD because again I'm not going to do any serious racing and I'm afraid it will be another thing to break. All I'm saying is I prefer lower tech cars because from my experience state of the art tech breaks more often.

Now let's analysis how much I hate Japanese companies as opposed to American as you have suggested I do! (heavy sarcasism) What did I buy when I needed a VCR and DVD player? Panasonic and Toshiba (both Japanese companies). Sure I could have bought GE, RCA, or Zenith but then I remembered how many problems I have had with those brands in recent years and went with the Japanese electronic brands because I believe they are more reliable. I recommend Toshiba laptops over Dell (an American based company) after my experience with both brands. I don't view Japan as being the enemy, in fact Japan happens to be in my eyes one of our country's best friends today. What they did to us was wrong in WWII but they are no longer like that. The U.K. used to be one of our opponents in previous wars but they are now our friends also. Would you accuse someone of being anti-British if they wanted a Viper over an Aston Martin even though the Aston Martin is more innovative?

For your information I have no problem with buying and using foreign made products I just happen to prefer the domestic equivalent in this category.

Now I have been a critic of many of Ford's decisions in recent years and one of the top ones is that they have done nothing to make the Crown Vic an attractive car since it was produced. For your info, the 91 Mustang didn't even have a V6 available. The only Mustangs that really appealed to me are some of the classics and some of the post-94 models.

I hate it when companies rebadge other companies products with no modification. I don't like seeing the Ford Ranger just being rebadged in the Mazda name anymore than I like seeing the Merc

kelly

Alright...Five times editing this...

RLSH700, you have a bad at work, dude? Please man, go have a beer, and reread my original post! Do you think if I included all that historical babble, I meant it to be racist?

The main reason why I mentioned you, RLSH700, is to illustrate a point. (The "cough, cough" comment was just ribbing, man)! Your reaction and feelings about Mitsubishi mirrored the American Public's feelings about the car, hence why they weren't so popular, and illustration of something I had say.

I am not here to call anyone racist. I joined this board to learn things I don't know about the Dodge Challenger, and to share the knowledge that I know about the car. I would also like to mention that nobody has said anything that offended me. If I were offended, you would know about it! It takes a lot to offend me, I am not one to harbor a grudge or bad feelings. I will let someone know, fix the problem and get over it.

I sincerely apologise if my post sounded racist, or harsh. I was merely illustrating a point, and sharing an idea I had about something non-Challenger related. I could personally care less about a Camaro, Mustang, (wasn't sure if the '91 had a V6 option) or the Stealth ( except to build my Glamis rally car!)

I have never owned any mitsubishi products, automotive, electronic, or otherwise, so I have no knowledge of their reliability or quality control...On paper they sound like great cars, easily beating the competition...

I realize that I am the new guy. Maybe I am a little arrogant, and cocky. The things I say are all in good nature, and to a (hopefully) unbiased point. I am not here to stir up any harsh emotions or call/accuse anybody of anything. I am here for the same reason you kids are here-THE BADDEST FREAKIN' CAR EVER, THE CHALLENGER!!!!
All apologies, fellas!

[sm=sorry.gif]

Personally, my VQ-series 3.5 engine must be cloaked in a 2003 Caribbean Blue G35 coupe!

Alright, who's bringing the beer?
[sm=closed.gif]
Later

1 Bad Mirada

it just seems like the two of you are bickering, and if im not mistaken, im seeing alot of google knowledge, and with it, some misinformation. i mean no offense to either of the combatants here, but i will give my two cents and hopefully clear up some mistakes. i dont not believe that the Evolution has ever had AWS...although the VR-4 galant and 3KGT did...but perhaps i missed the point about that. but alot of the points that are being made here are avoiding me...i seem to also recall that mitsubishi had problems with their AWS system, and in the end, they were only trying to copy what prince was accomplishing with the skylines

i shoudl point out that my stratus has the 6g72 (3.0L mitsu engine) and my car is basically a 3g eclipse with a different body. everything else, including the interior, os for most part the same. i bought my car on a monday in late june. four days later my car took 2nd place in a bracket class on the drag strip. about a week later, i had it on an autocross course. car and driver commented that the stratus "would use every bit of the 145mph speedometer" and the next day, i proved that they were right. my point is that my car has been by no means babied, and while i take good care and do alot of preventative maint. to my car, it has been driven hard since day one. at 55,000(ish) miles i changed the rotors and rear pads for the first time, and ive had 4 sets of front pads, as well as four sets of tires. the ONLY "problem" that i have had is creaky motor mounts, but i have swapped to solid mounts. i hear these complaints from people who have had problems with mitsu products, but i ran a mitsu forum, and own a mitsu product, and a friend of mine has a base model DSM that we got into the 14s with ONLY nitrous, on a bone stock 4 cylinder engine with 170,000 miles on it...i just dont see these problems. i also have a 52" mitsubishi HDTV, and i love it.

as for the VQ series, while it is a good engine in stock form, it does not take well to modifications without internal modification.

in 1991, like the rest of the 2-eye foxes, the base model got a 4 cylinder...and there was no V6 offered from the end of the 4-eye cars until the introduction of the sn95.

if kelly is talking about the same lambo -v- evo8 piece that i am thinking of, which was shown on top gear, it was a bit of a joke. the Evo used for that test was not the USDM Evo8, but instead the FQ-400, which boasts an additional 123hp, and it is just shy of a street legal car car. also, the lambo spun coming out of a turn late in the "Race", which any trained driver simply wouldnt do...top gear has a way of making cars look good, and making some cars look bad. also, i wouldnt call the nearing 40,000 USD price bargain basement. compared to a lambo, yes...compared to a lightly modded MCS (which can compete with the evo8), not at all.

RLSH700

First of all, I never accused you of being racist, I accused you of accusing me of being racist. The reason why I accused you of such was that you must have misunderstood what I meant by saying "I have this problem against Mitsubishi." My problem against Mitsubishi has nothing to do with what happened in WWII (although I'm perfectly aware of what part they played in WWII), it has to do with being strandend because a Mitsubishi 3.0L wouldn't start as well as other problems my family has had with their engines (including the 2.6L). You implied that I might have this thing against them and Japan, which in my book implies that I am racist.

The reason why I took to it that way was there is a member on another forum who will imply that if you don't like anything different than what is considered the "Traditional American way of doing things," for example say you don't like Mexican or Italian food, then you must be racist in this guys eyes. After dealing with this jerk about the issue I don't know how many times, I have become extremely defensive.

Secondly, I apologize for flying off the handle for that. That was the straw that broke the camels back.

Thirdly, my point is I really don't like it when brands will not make their own product but will outsource to other companies for the product (espically if the brand is not known for being of the best quality). It annoys me more when I see the excellent styling of Stealth and love the interior, then I discover it isn't a Dodge but instead a Mitsubishi.

If it would have offered a reliable Chrysler engine and a more reliable manual transmission, that is the car I would be driving today instead of an Intrepid. If it would have offered an engine that had the reliability of the VQ series I would probably have bought it anyways (I wouldn't buy the TT model because of the extra insurance expense and extra maintenance regardless which engine was offered). I used to love the Stealth and I was considering one despite the fact it was a rebadged 3000GT until I saw so many people having problems with them.

lear4406

Dodge did have a lot to do with the styling of the Dodge Stealth and they did have some input on the engine. Is the Dodge Stealth a Mitsubishi? Of course it is. My car was built in 1990 and the only problem I have on the car is a seam in the drivers seat has started to unravel. And I have a slight gear scrape going to 2nd gear. 240000 miles and this is all that I have to complain about. Also I get between 22-24 miles to the gallon around town. Depends on how many times i take it through the gears to red line. My sons car has 230000 miles and the only thing that I can say is that a very annoying sound comes out of his radio. My oldest sons 3000GT has 130000 miles on it and I think he told me the alt. belt squeeks. Other than that the car is absolutly great. I really don't hear a lot about the problems that others have talked about, but I'm sure every car has some lemons. Ya'll take care and have a nice day. Randy.

kelly

Yeah, it happens fellas...
My dad actually worked at Pacifica in the mid-eighties as a modeler (nowadays done by machine!). I don't have too many memories of Pacifica, mainly because I was very young when he was hired on for that project, but I do remember in 1984-85 seeing clay models of what was the 1990 Stealth. Then, it was going to be called the Inca, but I'm fairly certian that the unvieling of the B-2 Bomber in the late eighties had something to do with that car's final name change. If I were to have a stealth, I would most likely yank that motor out and put in something with a little more torque, say like a pushrod V-10!

RLSH700

As nice as having a V10 would be in the Stealth, there is no way it could fit. If you look at the engine compartment, the 3.0L is already a squeeze as it is, believe me I've seen one in person. Your not going to be able to squeeze a V10 in there, let alone any other engine from what I understand.

kelly

One word: sawzall!