zman

Naa, I would think that the biggest magic trick would be Charleton Heston and the likes around the world, holding a rifle above their heads, and chanting to the world " From My Cold Dead Hands " and making people think they actually need one to survive in todays day and age, could be creating more fear and urgency in the public, and Oh, I forgot also to mention that maybe just maybe, the firearms and ammunition companies might stand to make some money off this too, ya think? I can't believe that some people actually believe that this is all some concockted story just to cause unwaranted fear in people so other people can get rich! What are you guy's living in a dream world? Wake up and look around you, weather patterns are changing everywhere. It's changing now faster than ever, and you think it's all natural for nature to do this without our intervention? Tell me I'm wrong.

Z

Mopar_Nut

I agree. I think global warming is part of a natural climate change cycle.

I read an article on cnn.com about a huge "shelf of ice" the size of Manhattan broke loose, of course due to global warming. It stated that events like this have been happening more frequently in the last decades than ever before in recorded history.

My take on that is, we have just NOTICED it more now because of huge technology advances like satellite imagery, global communication systems, etc. Back in the 1800's, nobody would have known a huge piece of ice the size of Delaware broke off and melted in the sea, causing the ocean to rise 0.0000452".

Only relatively recently(last 4-5 decades) have scientists and tree huggers really taken notice of climate change, and can't accept that it just might be a natural cycle. There is no definitive, rock-solid, conclusive evidence that global warming is happening as a result of mankind.

My $.02.

zman

Well, I'll tell you one thing, I don't along with alot of other people, believe that with all the smoke stacks spewing crap into the sky's around the world, along with the millions or possibly billions of fossil fuel burning engines putting out their crap with out mentioning other technologies, and the increased methane gasses being generated by all the live stock around the world due to the huge food demand on society, can be benifiting the eco system in any way. The last 100 years is where industrialization has speed the whole process up, no doulbt about it, anyone that thinks otherwise, is a fool.

Z

DSkippy

Zman, I won't say you're wrong, as I can no more prove you are than you can prove I'm wrong or you're right.

It's called a complex system, that is beyond our ability to understand and predict. Just because you saw an Inconvenient Truth and decided to ascribe to the latest Jerry Springer flavor of science doesn't mean the rest of us have to travel w/ you down to Goretown and follow Reverend Gore and drink the KoolAid.

Here's a thought; do some research on the other side, explain about the tons of emissions from volcanoes and how they dwarf man made emissions....just google it not far away...

volcano "global warming" if that's too much work, because it's easier to be trained by popular media and bubble gum science than to think "hey we might not know everything" (even Hawking had to disavow his theory on Black Holes...and in case you didn't know the popular press was enamored with him thinking he could do no wrong)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...ing%22&spell=1

We may be effecting the climate, but my belief (just like yours is a BELIEF) is we are far too insignificant to play such a substantial role in effecting such a massively powerful and complex system.

CO2's a green house gas, everybody hold your breath!

And as for anyone who thinks differently from you is a fool; I'd wager you're a progressive/liberal. I find the least open minded people are the one's claiming to be the most open minded.

Only a fool speaks in platitudes such as "And anyone who thinks differently from me is a fool", I think you're a fool, but not for thinking differently from me, specifically for thinking in your own special way.

Engage in thought, not in vitriol and trite utterances, you'll earn the respect of your peers and you might even make a point.

Good luck w/ that Zman.

lear4406

DamnSkippy gotta give you a thumbs up on the response. I could not of said it better. zman lame statement with the" anyone that thinks otherwise, is a fool" You have a right to your opinion and everyone else theirs... but the fool part is so wrong in so many ways. I don't like when others dissagree with me but thats life. And they are not fools because they dissagree with me, they just see things different. And are we not all intitled to our own opinion and not have to be faced with a response like fool. Please don't place so much on your own self worth, its very unbecoming. And leads to harsh statements in response. Just agree to dissagree on that point and move on By that I don't mean .org.

DSkippy

Thanks Lear. The whole "you're an idiot for not thinking like me" thing gets so played after awhile. It comes pretty close to an outright attempt on censorship. Living where I live, I get lots of opportunity to debate topics and be denigrated for my views.

I keep fighting the good fight.

MFIllini5

Damnskippy...I think you are wrong. zman never said that humans are entirely or even substantially to blame for global warming, but you sure replied as if he did. I think zman's point is that clearly humans have had some impact, even if it is a small impact in the grand system. Example: If urban development of a few acres can have a certain specific impact on a local environment, then clearly farming, development, and traffic can have an impact worldwide, even if it is minimal. I do think you would have to "be a fool" or be really misinformed to think otherwise about that. Humans do have at least some impact. But I also think humans as a society are very conceited. I think mankind often thinks it's somehow outside the greater system or is more responsible than it really is for grand effects. Yes, I agree that was not a nice way for him to say it, but I think he was just trying to make a point.

lear4406

"We may be effecting the climate, but my belief (just like yours is a BELIEF) is we are far too insignificant to play such a substantial role in effecting such a massively powerful and complex system" is what DamnSkippy posted. "The last 100 years is where industrialization has speed the whole process up, no doulbt about it, anyone that thinks otherwise, is a fool". is what zman posted. Did you even read it MFIllini5? "I do think you would have to "be a fool" or be really misinformed to think otherwise about that". So here we are with the fool thing again. Keep the name calling out of it. It shows a lack of debating skills to have to stoop to name calling to make your point of view better than the others. You can find guys with degrees on both end of this discussion so that is a stalemate. Look the word fool up and you will see why it inflames people to be called that. i'm not going to sit by and watch a debate go personal and not jump in. In the end its all just opinions and I don't see anyone calling you an idiot for your views. Though in my mind I wonder if a balanced look is sought. Do you weigh it out or just go the name calling when your not appladed for your great insight that has eluded the ones who dissagree with you. We all have our right to dissagree and to not be called names for it. And I can read what zman wrote and he clearly thinks humans had a major impact on the enviroment in the last 100 years. At least thats what I read... am i missing something here? Its really not a disscussion I would care to get involved with but the name calling has got my attention and I would like to make it known to keep it above the table and stooping to name calling is just plain lame.

Yankee

Global warming, climate change, whatever you want to call it, has been turned into a religion. That's right - a RELIGION.

Before anyone jumps on me with a "how dare you..." for such a blasphemous comparison, think of the similarities. Plus, it's my humble opinion that this whole "climate change" scare is just a way to control people and big businesses - meaning, specifically, it's about the money (you could easily draw another religion comparison here), which is precisely why I can't lend this "climate change" scare any creedence whatsoever.

DSkippy

MFIllini5, Did you thoroughly read my post? Did you read my line:

I have no doubt we may be affecting the climate. Hell, by flatulating (http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Flatulate) you, personally are dispelling wealth of climate impacting gases, and if you will allow me a Jeff Goldbloom illustration of the Chaos Theory in Jurassic Park (Crichton, author of State of Fear, ironic), paraphrasing "a butterfly flaps his wings in Japan and a hurricane hits America", sure it can happen...but again it is theory.

As for me being badly mis-informed, could it be you? Is that even a possibility? I used to spew what was being fed to my young mind to my Grandfather who was a Quantum Physicist and the smartest man I have ever met (including friends I have pursuing their doctorate's degrees in Comp Sci at Carnegie Melon), he would reply don't believe everything that is stated on the news (I guess they'd talk about physics from time to time and he saw how badly they got it) or even by your teachers. At the time it seemed like blasphemy, but as I aged, I came to realize through accruing knowledge, that the so called experts many times get it disastrously wrong. And even when you think you may be right, sometimes you aren't.

You're more than welcome to think I'm wrong. I'll think you're wrong and we can live civilly. And in turn, I can think your misinformed and I may think you're a fool. I won't write that.

Yankee's spot on with the Global Warming crowd. It seems to be a religious zeal that would stand up to self sacrifice, immolation, sepaku what have you.

You know there was a time when everyone KNEW the world was flat. Lighten up, MFILLINI5.