1971Chall

Thank you Damnskippy and Lear 4406. I agree with the whole complexity issue. Are humans affecting it? Probably in some small way. Did we as a whole completely change the whole planetary history in the last 100 yrs? Come on, I think anyone is kidding themselves if they believe that IMO. The Reverend Gore/koolaid analogy was priceless. If Z-man wants to be a sheep then let him follow the global warming flock. When he's told to jump in front of a train because he is part of the bad humans who caused global warming I won't shed a tear reading the obituary after he does it.

zman

Lol, what have I done, didn't mean to insult anyone in particular, I'm just venting for the sole reason that if there is an issue I will stand for, it is for the protection of our enviroment.
It bothers me that alot of people take it lighter than less seriose issues, no enviroment, no roads to enjoy driving your Challenger on. I'm in the middle on this, the Greenies to one side and the ignorant to the other, I practice as much as I can to reduce my carbon footprint, but I still like to spoil myself sometimes also.

Z

RoswellGrey

So, zman, I take it you, too, are buying a Challenger SE? (Legitimate question. I've noted I'm now leaning toward two V-6s "in the low 20s" rather than even an R/T).

RLSH700

Zman, you are destroying your credibility by attacking people who disagree with you by calling them fools and ignorant as it is a logical fallacy named "attacking the person." You can disagree if you want to but do it without name calling as it violates rule # 2. Also remember that lear4406 is a section moderator and it is not a wise idea to attack moderators no matter what rank they are as it violates rule #13 and we moderators work together as a team (you mess with one of us, you will have to take all of us on).


The fact of the matter is the so called solutions like hybrids do damage to our environment by the environmentalist's own science. There was one study that found that a Prius does MORE environmental damage due to the battery packs than a Hummer does. The other problem with this religion is the fact that the people who keep whining to us to use public transportation and carpool everywhere or walk, to use one square of toilet paper, and other obsessive compulsive standards turn around and use private jets to get to different locations. Also some of them like everyone's favorite politician drive SUVs in the hybrid versions that get no better mileage than your average car. Also remember this is the same guy who claimed to have invented the Internet which we all know he was lying about that as well. His family were tobacco raisers, so remember that his family has profited off of "damaging our environment." The carbon credit garbage is nothing other than an indulgence for "sins" for this religion. It is a religion as it shares beliefs from pagan religions of the old days and they have just created new buzz world like "theory" to replace unpopular sounding words like "belief."

You also have to remember the same crowd claimed global cooling so they have a tendency to flip-flop on the issue, and I have heard several claims from the same community that the ManBearPig (excuse me "Global Warming") first causes the temperature to increase then later decrease, which is nothing other than a cycle. It is also important to remember that during the similar periods as our temperature went up, Mars went up as well and they don't have SUVs, Factories, or Bovine Flatulating contributing to the issue. It is also important to remember that Volcanic eruptions do far more damage than we can ever do, so our contribution is extremely minimal.

1971Chall, in response to your earlier post about the STi vs. Evo comparison, I'm glad that finally someone else has noticed what I have been saying for years. Although these cars are slightly faster in acceleration and corner better, the issue is that they have less than half the displacement and get the same to worse fuel economy than good old V8s and as we have said before, wi

lear4406

While I slept... seems you guys have ironed it all out I really don't mind a spirited debate. I just think it should stay civil. Differing opinions we will have and ammunition on both sides. But the name calling is where it stops. I have to admit... we have some pretty sharp minds here on CF and I'm always glad to hear the reasons people believe the way they do. My views are formed by the way I process my information, just like all of us do. We just come up with differing conclusions

RLSH700

I don't have a problem either with differing opinions. When we have an online forum, we will get opinions because people are located in different places and the conventional wisdom of those different places will inspire other people's beliefs and value system. The issue is that I will not tolerate name calling to take the place of content in a person's thread. There are tons of forums out there with pointless name calling going on, this is one of the few we have managed to keep as clean as possible of the name calling and I'm not about to let that change. This is why I normally suggest to avoid politics and why I try to stay away from specific political opinions. I try to stick to statements that I think 99.9% of the audience can agree on (politicians on all sides are corrupt, they never do anything right unless it is by accident, we are best if we can reserve using them as a last resort to problems).

DSkippy

Zman, have you reached some Zen like enlightenment? Seems like you're perfectly neutral, not too environmentally conscious but also not ignorant. Do you see the self aggrandizement in this statement? Other than myself, and possibly Chuck Norris, none of us are perfect.

It reminds me of the comic's skit where the boy learned something....everyone driving slower than his father was an idiot and everyone driving faster was a maniac.

Does this analogy help at all?

I think I'm right and think you're wrong, but I understand that me thinking it doesn't necessarily make it so. It's human condition. I hope some of this rings true.

As far as protecting the environment; please don't relegate people who don't attribute climate change solely or largely to human cause as not caring about the environment.

It's too simplistic. I would back legislation that kept mercury and lead out of the environment as they have proven SCIENTIFICALLY the effects of these elements on living creatures. OR when they don't want raw sewage or fine companies for not disposing of their toxic waste to where it can leach into the water.

While the rest of us may not have reached your perfect level of environmental incite, it doesn't mean we're totally ignorant. Now, excuse me while I go dump my used motor oil down the storm drain.

MFIllini5

lear4406 & DamnSkippy & RLSH700...the following apply to one or more of you based on your responses since my last...

First, just because zman said that humans have sped the global warming process up does not mean he is saying that humans are the sole cause or even a major cause of global warming. There is a difference between increasing rate and total effect. And so I go back to my point which was that I believe DamnSkippy was wrong to imply that zman was saying humans are the sole or primary cause.

Second, when I said "be a fool" in my response I put it in quotes. That normally implies I am not saying it myself. When you read that in the context of the rest of my statement you see that I said I agree that was not a nice way to make a point, but I think zman was just trying to make a point. So, basically I was telling DamnSkippy to lighten up. He has a lot of nerve telling me to lighten up.

Third, I'm not here to argue that global warming is mainly being caused by humans. I think it is very clear to anyone that has a smidge of knowledge that humans have at least some minimal effect on the environment. That was all I said and that was what I was saying I thought zman was saying. So, no I don't think you can really argue with that and I don't think I could be wrong about that. I don't think that it takes rocket science to know that we humans have at least some minimal effect on the environment.

Last and most importantly, zman did not call anyone a fool. If you look at his original post he said "anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool". That is a general statement to make a point, not directed at anyone in particular.

And again, I think zman's point is that humans are having an increasing effect, not necessarily that we are the sole or primary cause of global warming.

lear4406

Man, we all read the same post and believe it or not I can comprehend what was written. I really don't need someone to explain to me that the word fool when put in quotes means any less if its an agreed statement. And if its read the way it was written then I do take offence. I think that it would of been better to just say " sorry about the misunderstanding". But this is what I meant and if you disagree thats just fine. When I look over what was written no one said man did'nt have an affect, just to what degree his involvement in the last 100 years has been. Simple, one side thinks alot and the other very little. Mr. Gore thinks alot and I think Mother Nature has more to do with it and man a slight impact. But its an opinion type deal and I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Debate is cool and I welcome both views Thanks for your input and lets just say that keeping anything that can be construed or misconstrued as personal attack should be avoided. That will keep us from having to explain ourselves

73Cuda340

No matter how much people try, hybrids are not environmentally friendly. In case you are not aware, in most states, should a hybrid be in an accident especially where the batteries integrity is called into question. HAZMAT has to be called. Oh, and it is not covered by insurance. So the cost to the consumer goes way up. ANd all this says nothing about the strip mining that goes on to extract the nickle for the batteires, then there is the shipping and the rail and the fact that ships that take the batteries across the rolling blue carry no other cargo except the batteries - again because of the environmental impact the ships are especially designed solely for such substances. Environmentally friendly, ha, my a$$.

Oh, and while I am at it, let me take a shot at Al Gore - He appears to have fallen off a turnip truck, is a brick shy of a full load, not the sharpest knife int he drawer, not the brightest buld ont he Xmas tree and reminds me of Paul's Revere's ride - a little lite in the bellfree. There did I get all parts of the states?

Now that is how to insult someone without calling them names.

09_(! red | black | silver)_manual_6.1L_Challenger_SRT8