Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
03-10-2006, 08:56 AM
#31
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RE: Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
LOOK, Kia doesn't even make a RWD V8 retro styled pony/muscle car, BUT if they did & offered it at say a base MSRP price near or slightly less than the current MSRP of $25,0000-$26,000 for a base V8 model Mustang-GT, THEN you WOULD see Ford LOOSING a fair number of customers to Kia....
PRICE DOES MATTER A LOT.....
Dodge told us when the Viper concept was going to market that they were going to keep its PRICE COMPETATIVE withe the CORVETTE so that the average working man out here might have a chance of buying one someday.....
BUT.... THAT was not the case and the Viper came to market MUCH HIGHER in price and in turn a smaller vollumed production run than the VETTE...
So... in that since, DODGE did FAIL with its orginal marketing intent of the Viper...
BUT.... The Viper ended up becoming more of a supercar type status instead of a VETTE fighter, and ended up a success with richer entusiast despite not meeting its original intent...
BECAUSE of this... many of the more well to do & richer entusiast managed to swing the money that Dodge requested for the VIPER and ended up buying an AWESOME car... BUT, this left many of us out here who wanted one with no alternative from DODGE and totally LEFT-OUT....
NOW... Along comes the Challenger concept being a true pony/muscle car concept, just like the original, which AGAIN was more designed with the blue collar masses in mind and you are trying to JUSTIFY Dodge charging $3000-$5000 more per car than a comparable Mustang model???
I'M TELLING YOU NOW.... If this is the intent of Dodge's marketing Guru's, then as bad as many of us out here really want a Challenger, WE WILL WALK reluctantly to the nearest friendly Ford dealer and buy a MUSTANG-GT or what ever variant of the Mustang that fits our needs, wants, and our wallets....
DODGE WILL MISS OUT ON A TON OF SELLS IF THEY GO THIS ROAD.....[&o][
][&o]
PRICE DOES MATTER A LOT.....
Dodge told us when the Viper concept was going to market that they were going to keep its PRICE COMPETATIVE withe the CORVETTE so that the average working man out here might have a chance of buying one someday.....
BUT.... THAT was not the case and the Viper came to market MUCH HIGHER in price and in turn a smaller vollumed production run than the VETTE...
So... in that since, DODGE did FAIL with its orginal marketing intent of the Viper...
BUT.... The Viper ended up becoming more of a supercar type status instead of a VETTE fighter, and ended up a success with richer entusiast despite not meeting its original intent...
BECAUSE of this... many of the more well to do & richer entusiast managed to swing the money that Dodge requested for the VIPER and ended up buying an AWESOME car... BUT, this left many of us out here who wanted one with no alternative from DODGE and totally LEFT-OUT....
NOW... Along comes the Challenger concept being a true pony/muscle car concept, just like the original, which AGAIN was more designed with the blue collar masses in mind and you are trying to JUSTIFY Dodge charging $3000-$5000 more per car than a comparable Mustang model???
I'M TELLING YOU NOW.... If this is the intent of Dodge's marketing Guru's, then as bad as many of us out here really want a Challenger, WE WILL WALK reluctantly to the nearest friendly Ford dealer and buy a MUSTANG-GT or what ever variant of the Mustang that fits our needs, wants, and our wallets....
DODGE WILL MISS OUT ON A TON OF SELLS IF THEY GO THIS ROAD.....[&o][
][&o]
03-10-2006, 09:21 AM
#32
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RE: Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
Gotta agree.... I think I've said as much myself already. They need to be competitve with the Mustang price-wise, unless they are willing to get their a$$e$ kicked in the sales numbers (and profits). It makes no sense to create all this hype and hope, only to price the average enthusiast out of this car. I hope the bean counters are listening and paying attention!
03-10-2006, 11:02 AM
#33
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RE: Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
Styling - Performance - Price. I think we all agree that the first two have been met. The only unknown is Price. If they can get that right, they will succeed.
03-10-2006, 02:21 PM
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RE: Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
KIA's sales of FWD vehicles has failed to gain much traction despite offering a better warrantee and a lower price, the reasons why they fail is their bland styling and poor reliability reputation. This represents the mind set of the American consumer, they see KIA as a inferior product. Time to show you so more evidence. If you theory of lowest price=highest sales was correct, then the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry would not be the two best selling sedans in the U.S. for the last several years. The problem you just don't seem to understand is people will pay for for a product they think is superior. The price difference between the Accord and Camry in comparison between the Fusion and Malibu is on average around $2,000-5,000 MORE for the Accord and Camry when similarly equipped, but the two outsells both of them. Ford has had some trouble getting the Fusion to sell as well as they hoped. They offered it for a good price, they have pushed it, they have mass produced it, but guess what, it isn't selling. Now why do you think they are not selling. It is simple, Toyota and Honda are considered superior product lines, whereas Ford and Chevrolet are considered to be inferior products. This is proof that people car more about perception more than price.
If Dodge and GM offers their pony car lines, Ford will probably run into the same problem they are having with all their other product lines. They will have too much supply without the necessary demand. Dodge and GM intering that market will take sales away from them and Ford doesn't seem to understand that they are producing too much supply of vehicles. This strategy might seem to make sense to you because it is currently working for the Mustang, but when there is competition, it won't work out as well. The domestic manufactures keep trying to fight each other and the Japanese manufactures by discounting, and it keeps failing. Dodge has finally understood this, they are developing more the strategy the Japanese have of offering a product that is nicer to own, but costs a little more, and it is succeeding.
Simple fact, if you priced the Mustang GT at the current price of the GTO and gave the GTO the Mustang's price, the Mustang would go down some but its sales would still beat the GTO by a huge margin. People flocked over to the Ford dealerships because they loved the styling and the historic name "Ford Mustang" has an identity that Americans identify themselves with. The GTO would still not sell, because it does not stand out like the Mustang did. If you don't believe me look at Grand Prix coupe sales in comparison with Mustang sales.
The Viper is still in production and is about to be refreshed again; therefore, it did not fail. The Viper would have failed against the Corvette, if they would have decided to compete against it. Chevrolet would always be able to undersell them no matter what Dodge would do. The Corvette's name would beat them in sales even if Dodge somehow managed to under sell the Corvette because people are loyal to the Corvette just as they are with the Mustang, even more so since it is older. Dodge did the only thing they really could do during the 90s when they introduced the Viper. It is better to make a newer, smaller segment than to try and compete in a segment that has a limited market with extreme brand loyalty. If there would have been large enough market, they would have launched a Corvette competitor.
That is precisely your problem with understanding the situation. They are not completely comparable like you think they are. Look at what the Mustang really is. It is a car with a nice looking shell with a bunch of left over parts, just like the Taurus and Crown Vic. Just take a look at the past. The '96 Cobra model that they made such a big deal about had the 4.6L 32valve engine
If Dodge and GM offers their pony car lines, Ford will probably run into the same problem they are having with all their other product lines. They will have too much supply without the necessary demand. Dodge and GM intering that market will take sales away from them and Ford doesn't seem to understand that they are producing too much supply of vehicles. This strategy might seem to make sense to you because it is currently working for the Mustang, but when there is competition, it won't work out as well. The domestic manufactures keep trying to fight each other and the Japanese manufactures by discounting, and it keeps failing. Dodge has finally understood this, they are developing more the strategy the Japanese have of offering a product that is nicer to own, but costs a little more, and it is succeeding.
Simple fact, if you priced the Mustang GT at the current price of the GTO and gave the GTO the Mustang's price, the Mustang would go down some but its sales would still beat the GTO by a huge margin. People flocked over to the Ford dealerships because they loved the styling and the historic name "Ford Mustang" has an identity that Americans identify themselves with. The GTO would still not sell, because it does not stand out like the Mustang did. If you don't believe me look at Grand Prix coupe sales in comparison with Mustang sales.
The Viper is still in production and is about to be refreshed again; therefore, it did not fail. The Viper would have failed against the Corvette, if they would have decided to compete against it. Chevrolet would always be able to undersell them no matter what Dodge would do. The Corvette's name would beat them in sales even if Dodge somehow managed to under sell the Corvette because people are loyal to the Corvette just as they are with the Mustang, even more so since it is older. Dodge did the only thing they really could do during the 90s when they introduced the Viper. It is better to make a newer, smaller segment than to try and compete in a segment that has a limited market with extreme brand loyalty. If there would have been large enough market, they would have launched a Corvette competitor.
you are trying to JUSTIFY Dodge charging $3000-$5000 more per car than a comparable Mustang model??
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03-10-2006, 07:49 PM
#35
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RE: Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
I hope you are right about Dodge pulling it off... I think they can TOO if they do this right...
I AGREE that any of the Challenger models will be "better" cars than any comparable Mustang model and that the car buying public might be willing to pay a few dollars more for one(maybe $1000-$2000), BUT, I'M telling you, and as evidence on this and other blogs were this has been discussed, a large majority of the average blue collar working class will NOT pay and can not afford $3000-$5000 more for a comparable Challenger model to that of a Mustang.... On this matter you and I will have to AGREE to DISAGREE...[&:]
I AGREE that any of the Challenger models will be "better" cars than any comparable Mustang model and that the car buying public might be willing to pay a few dollars more for one(maybe $1000-$2000), BUT, I'M telling you, and as evidence on this and other blogs were this has been discussed, a large majority of the average blue collar working class will NOT pay and can not afford $3000-$5000 more for a comparable Challenger model to that of a Mustang.... On this matter you and I will have to AGREE to DISAGREE...[&:]
03-11-2006, 11:00 PM
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RE: Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
ORIGINAL: DARK AGE 53
If the Challenger has a base MSRP price of:
25K Soooo in with $50.00 a month payments
30K In for sure but higher payments
35K In but not a dollar more, "Honey do you like eating tuna, well you better start", maybe I can sell my Jerry Rice jersey and Battlestar Galactica stuff.
40+K Out, I'll look for used one 2011 while driving my 2007 Mustang GT
...and I'm not paying over MSRP either
If the Challenger has a base MSRP price of:
25K Soooo in with $50.00 a month payments
30K In for sure but higher payments
35K In but not a dollar more, "Honey do you like eating tuna, well you better start", maybe I can sell my Jerry Rice jersey and Battlestar Galactica stuff.
40+K Out, I'll look for used one 2011 while driving my 2007 Mustang GT
...and I'm not paying over MSRP either
03-12-2006, 10:40 AM
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RE: Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
The bottom line here is the Challenger must compete with the Mustang and soon Camaro in engine availability-V/6 V/8, and price. The farther the V/8 powered Challengers get past $28-29k the more sales they lose regardless of how much better of a car it is. Why- because the general public is first concerned with how much it will cost them to get into a car. Most are ignorant of what actually makes a certain vehicle "better" and therefore worth more than one it may be in direct competition with. They see the car(s) they would like and then the price for said car(s), very little else. That's it in probably 90% of cases. Therefore the Challenger has to be priced like the car(s) it will compete against right out of the box or it will fall on it's face right out of the box.
03-12-2006, 12:21 PM
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RE: Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
WOW, my brain hurts from reading all that.........[sm=bangbang.gif]but I'll add my .02. First as a consumer I have to find the car appealing, be it the body styling, engine HP, price, or a combo of all these. It has to have the right combo of each for me to buy, if not I walk. Yes there is some perception of a manufactures quality, but to me there're all about the same. I'am not locked into one brand or another, a floater if you will. I probably have a little more spending cash than the average guy, but just because I have a little more doesn't mean I want to spend it. If the Challenger cost more that 32k[sm=forgetit.gif] I'll either walk, wait for a used one or buy anther GTO, Mustang, Camaro or something else. Its that simple! I really like the Challenger though, it looks sharp, [sm=drooldude.gif]A better retro than the Stang IMO.[sm=grinangel.gif]
03-12-2006, 03:33 PM
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RE: Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
ORIGINAL: Racer X
WOW, my brain hurts from reading all that.........[sm=bangbang.gif]but I'll add my .02. First as a consumer I have to find the car appealing, be it the body styling, engine HP, price, or a combo of all these. It has to have the right combo of each for me to buy, if not I walk. Yes there is some perception of a manufactures quality, but to me there're all about the same. I'am not locked into one brand or another, a floater if you will. I probably have a little more spending cash than the average guy, but just because I have a little more doesn't mean I want to spend it. If the Challenger cost more that 32k[sm=forgetit.gif] I'll either walk, wait for a used one or buy anther GTO, Mustang, Camaro or something else. Its that simple! I really like the Challenger though, it looks sharp, [sm=drooldude.gif]A better retro than the Stang IMO.[sm=grinangel.gif]
WOW, my brain hurts from reading all that.........[sm=bangbang.gif]but I'll add my .02. First as a consumer I have to find the car appealing, be it the body styling, engine HP, price, or a combo of all these. It has to have the right combo of each for me to buy, if not I walk. Yes there is some perception of a manufactures quality, but to me there're all about the same. I'am not locked into one brand or another, a floater if you will. I probably have a little more spending cash than the average guy, but just because I have a little more doesn't mean I want to spend it. If the Challenger cost more that 32k[sm=forgetit.gif] I'll either walk, wait for a used one or buy anther GTO, Mustang, Camaro or something else. Its that simple! I really like the Challenger though, it looks sharp, [sm=drooldude.gif]A better retro than the Stang IMO.[sm=grinangel.gif]
GREAT POST!
03-12-2006, 03:36 PM
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RE: Because we have nothing better to do that's see who's in or out..
ORIGINAL: deranged
The bottom line here is the Challenger must compete with the Mustang and soon Camaro in engine availability-V/6 V/8, and price. The farther the V/8 powered Challengers get past $28-29k the more sales they lose regardless of how much better of a car it is. Why- because the general public is first concerned with how much it will cost them to get into a car. Most are ignorant of what actually makes a certain vehicle "better" and therefore worth more than one it may be in direct competition with. They see the car(s) they would like and then the price for said car(s), very little else. That's it in probably 90% of cases. Therefore the Challenger has to be priced like the car(s) it will compete against right out of the box or it will fall on it's face right out of the box.
The bottom line here is the Challenger must compete with the Mustang and soon Camaro in engine availability-V/6 V/8, and price. The farther the V/8 powered Challengers get past $28-29k the more sales they lose regardless of how much better of a car it is. Why- because the general public is first concerned with how much it will cost them to get into a car. Most are ignorant of what actually makes a certain vehicle "better" and therefore worth more than one it may be in direct competition with. They see the car(s) they would like and then the price for said car(s), very little else. That's it in probably 90% of cases. Therefore the Challenger has to be priced like the car(s) it will compete against right out of the box or it will fall on it's face right out of the box.
AGAIN I AGREE!
EXCELLENT POST!!!
THIS is what I have been hearing from most people and what I have been TRYING to tell the ones in opposition to our view point!!!
