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Will Buick make another GNX and will it be a real GNX?

Old 01-16-2007, 01:25 AM
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Default Will Buick make another GNX and will it be a real GNX?

I was reading this and I was thinking this would be a good idea for GM to try. Performance has helped the Cadillac division, so why not try to help the Buick division. The only thing is they need to becareful about doing what they keep doing wrong in today's market. They need to seperate the Zeta's offerings. If the GNX is going to be made again it should be exactly what it was originally a turbocharged car. They should either twin-turbocharge the 3800 series III, or better yet turbocharge a V8.

I think they shouldn't offer the 6.0L in so many similar cars. The cars will begin to compete against each other instead of others. It should be limited to the Chevrolet and Pontiac division, if even the Pontiac division. If they are going to just offer the a NA V8 in a GNX, they should at least use the more technologically advanced 6.2L V8.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/12/27/c...nx-save-buick/
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Old 01-16-2007, 09:06 AM
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Default RE: Will Buick make another GNX and will it be a real GNX?

the problem with your idea is the exact reason that companies do make 100 cars that are all basically the same with slightly different sheet metal and plastic cladding. cost. so much R&D goes into the preproduction of a chassis, and twice as much goes into engine development; espcially with something wild like a turbo V8 or TT V6, from a company who has typically always relied on NA engines.

when i worked for dodge we got a magazine that was packed full of industry stats, but i cannot recall what it was called. that magazine had things like:
what car a given age group tends to buy
what age group tends to uy certain models and brands
what cars are more popular in what areas

it seemed like common sense to me, but having worked in the industry long enough to see what morons helped run dealerships and sell cars, im not surprised. things like "convertibles sell better in the south and west".

anyways, one of the stats was that the average age of a new dodge buyer was something like 36. the average age of a new toyota buyer was like 29. and the average age of a buick buyer was something like 62. im sure that im not exact on the numbers, but the average age of a buick buyer was in the 60s. when 90% of the people going to the dealership are that old, there is no point in plunking down a performance car in the middle of all of the nice mild grandma sedans.

we should also keep in mind that buick didnt make the GNX...an aftermarket company took the grand national and made it into the GNX.
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Old 01-16-2007, 01:02 PM
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Default RE: Will Buick make another GNX and will it be a real GNX?


ORIGINAL: 1 Bad Mirada

the problem with your idea is the exact reason that companies do make 100 cars that are all basically the same with slightly different sheet metal and plastic cladding. cost. so much R&D goes into the preproduction of a chassis, and twice as much goes into engine development; espcially with something wild like a turbo V8 or TT V6, from a company who has typically always relied on NA engines.

when i worked for dodge we got a magazine that was packed full of industry stats, but i cannot recall what it was called. that magazine had things like:
what car a given age group tends to buy
what age group tends to uy certain models and brands
what cars are more popular in what areas

it seemed like common sense to me, but having worked in the industry long enough to see what morons helped run dealerships and sell cars, im not surprised. things like "convertibles sell better in the south and west".

anyways, one of the stats was that the average age of a new dodge buyer was something like 36. the average age of a new toyota buyer was like 29. and the average age of a buick buyer was something like 62. im sure that im not exact on the numbers, but the average age of a buick buyer was in the 60s. when 90% of the people going to the dealership are that old, there is no point in plunking down a performance car in the middle of all of the nice mild grandma sedans.

we should also keep in mind that buick didnt make the GNX...an aftermarket company took the grand national and made it into the GNX.
You have good points, but I still stand on my idea for a few reasons. The cars a dealership offers are the thing that brings people into the dealership in the first place. If a company makes cars that appeal to a younger audience, the audience will come to the dealership. Besides, many GM dealerships have Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Buick altogether. A turbo or TT GNX would be more expensive but that is part of the point. A GNX is supposed to be an exclusive model. Chevrolet is supposed to be pure lowest cost model in the market. Pontiac is supposed to be focused purely on performance. Buick should be offering near-luxury with a bit of performance to help shed the senior citizen image (it help Cadillac a lot). When Cadillac made the CTS-V, it captured the attention of people my age. People that were previously obsessed with BMWs and Mercedes now were thinking about Cadillacs. Cadillac should be offer the best of everything that the company can make.
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Old 01-16-2007, 08:17 PM
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Default RE: Will Buick make another GNX and will it be a real GNX?

Wasn't it McClaren and someone else involved with it back then? Sorry, I'm not that familiar with Buick (or interested). Every time I hear Buick I think of Skylark anyways and the current Skylarks aren't my cup of tea.
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Old 01-16-2007, 10:05 PM
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Default RE: Will Buick make another GNX and will it be a real GNX?

you are correct, mike...

also, anyone who considers a caddy over a bmw, who wants performance and luxury, hasnt driven a bmw...
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Old 01-16-2007, 10:12 PM
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Default RE: Will Buick make another GNX and will it be a real GNX?


ORIGINAL: 1 Bad Mirada

you are correct, mike...

also, anyone who considers a caddy over a bmw, who wants performance and luxury, hasnt driven a bmw...
It isn't a factor of actually wanting a Caddy over a BMW, its that they are actually considering Caddy again. BMW is still superior but the fact that they are putting an effort in performance is helping them brake through to the younger audience.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:11 AM
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Default RE: Will Buick make another GNX and will it be a real GNX?

i agree...and see what you mean..if you look at the caddy lineup from say, 15 years ago...there is no way in hell i would consider one, unless i was taking a new job as a pimp...but now, caddy does make some nice sporty luxury sedans. however, my 92 5 series was probably of better quality then a 2007 caddy.

i was thinking about this a little more, and it seems that so many car companies are settling into a niche, and they dont often stray out of that niche...buicks niche is old people and slow, boring cars...i would be very, very surprised to see a grand national pop up.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:47 PM
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i agree...and see what you mean..if you look at the caddy lineup from say, 15 years ago...there is no way in hell i would consider one, unless i was taking a new job as a pimp...but now, caddy does make some nice sporty luxury sedans. however, my 92 5 series was probably of better quality then a 2007 caddy.

i was thinking about this a little more, and it seems that so many car companies are settling into a niche, and they dont often stray out of that niche...buicks niche is old people and slow, boring cars...i would be very, very surprised to see a grand national pop up.
Yes that is my point. Caddies of 15 years ago appealed to two crowds, wealthy old men and pimps. Although Caddy's quality is far below BMW's quality, the factor is that they can now be considered in the same category regardless that they are one of the weakest contender in that category. It is better to be a weak contender in the sporty luxury sedans than be a strong contender in plain luxury sedans (cough Lincoln). The sporty luxury opens the market to a younger crowd. Frankly, a 92 BMW might be higher quality than a current BMW.

Chrysler used to be more of a senior citizen division, now it appeals to audiences of all age (although they are starting to head back to the senior citizen market). The problem that GM currently has is they need a division to compete against Toyota and Honda. That is where their weak link is at. They have a successful budget division (Chevrolet), a successful performance division (Pontiac), and a somewhat successful luxury division (Caddy), but what they need is a upscale/near-luxury division to compete in that market.

Although the Saturn Aura is a nice car, it isn't catching on because of the division. It is more difficult to reposition a division more upscale than to move a market down. I believe that if they would offer the cars to Buick that they are going to be offering in Saturn, I believe they would sell better. The reason why is Saturn unfortuneatly has a weak niche market. Although it is an import competitor, it is more of a lower level Japanese competitor like Suzuki. I believe if they would sell it in Buick it would stand a better chance of catching on. It better fits the Buick market than the Saturn market.

The reason why I hold this theory is the Aura was shown to focus group. It was initally rated 5 out of 5 in just about every category (desireability, style, performance, etc.), then when they informed the people that it was a Saturn that was cut in half. Saturn has a very negative image with it, this means they should have badged it under a different division. The problem is which one would the formula work it. It won't work in Chevrolet, their image is too cheap to appeal to even be considered by the right crowd. They can't do it under Pontiac, it would damage their performance image and the near-luxury appeal would be lost in the Pontiac marketing. They can't do it in Cadillac, it isn't nice enough to be a Caddy, it would be a repeat of the mistake of the Catera. They can't use any of their import brands such as Saab. It won't sell enough of them. The only two divisions this car could work under are Buick and Oldsmobile, and the later is dead.

Although the Sky is doing well in sales, it really didn't matter what division they sold it under. It is just plain a sweet car. The problem though is that they are trying to sell it at a higher price than the Solstice since the Sky is supposed to be superior. We have already found that Saturn has a more negative image than Saturn. The Sky has more potiential of improving the image of Buick than Saturn. The sporty coupe would really help out Buick's senior citizen image more than Saturn's import image, plus Buick has a wider spread of dealerships than Saturn.

If Buick would offer the GNX again, along with the more attractive offerings from Saturn, they
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