lear4406

As I understand it there is a HP increase in the 5.7 and 6.1. I believe I read it on Charger Forums and I'm not too sure how accurate the info was. But I believe the power will be increased for the Challenger, If I was a betting man I would bet that it will be. And yes, the Camaro is the competition for the Challenger. The Mustang... nice car but not a race horse by any means. For the Ford crowd, I hope they increase the HP. They have a long way to go to catch the LS2 and 6.1. GM is holding their cards for now and won't show their hand. But if they do have more ponies, my next call after getting the Challenger will be Mopar Performance. I love to suprise people. And before someone says that the Camaro comes out in 2009, I know... it looks like my Challenger will be 2009. Good luck Mustang and good luck Camaro... if you run into my Challenger it ain't stock. It will look stock, but I don't own 1 car that has not been modded.

LordFoul

I have to agree about waiting until 2009 or at least for a 2009 model.

Seems to me Dodge can only get the 6.1 going for this first model run, and I'd rather wait until they figure out all the options they want to sell before I make the plan to purchase one. It seems like this first run is to capture the excitement that has built up and sell to the crowd that just has to have one now. I really don't have to have one now...

After the dust settles and the hoopla has died down and they have to compete with the Camaro, I'm sure Dodge will be playing around with all kinds of options / and drive train options to appeal to a wider audience. I would think the 5.7 and 6.4 motors have to be in the Challenger eventually, and possibly the 7.0.

I think those people committing to get the first Challengers will be disappointed a year later when the prices have dropped and many more options exist. At least they will have that first year to enjoy themselves.

Axel

Truck tuned? Maybe built to tow in terms of it not falling apart, but definitely not truck tuned. I mean the tq should be higher in the Ram not in the cars. Also, the band for hp and tq really isn't good when it comes to towing. The arguement there is that it builds to it, but that is a very large build and a very high range to keep the RPMs in in order to access that power. 345 hp at 5,400 RPM and 375 lb tq at 4,200 RPM sound more like something that should be in a sports car or muscle car, not in a towing truck. I didn't mind because I didn't tow with it, but at the same time I knew I was never accessing the full power of that engine in my 2500. Kind of disappointing really.

I'm having a hard time doing it, but I'm pretty sure that I'm going to wait until the 09 model, which I have stated before. As someone said, I want the best that they have available and it sounds like the best is going to be out in 09. Gonna be really hard to see those going past me, but I will find comfort sitting and knowing that I will in fact own a better one once they bring out all the new toys.

As for the upgrading, are we still sure that we are still going to have Mopar Performance in the near future? Are they going to keep that part of the business?

RLSH700

Lear: I hope that your source is correct. That would be an excellent way to kick off the new Challenger. The only trouble I have in believing that is all the press releases referring to the Challenger equipped with the 6.1L will have the current 425hp output. Maybe this will happen later in production. For the sake of making things interesting, I would like to see Ford improve their power without resorting to forced air induction so then they can compete as well. I would just like to see the Challenger be faster stock than resorting to aftermarket parts, because then the never ending debates happen, "Well your's might be faster stock, but now I added this and it trumps your's." These get very old. A car is normally judged by its stock capabilities. Don't get me wrong, having a modified Challenger is more than respectable, I just want to see the Challenger do better in its stock form is all.

Axel: Perhaps it isn't the best term to associate between the two but you know what I mean. You are right based on the information that we have available that the 5.7L produces that torque and hp at a higher RPM, in fact higher than even the LX car version. I think the reason why the LX cars generate more tq is partly due to the exhaust system. To tell you the truth, I have often thought it was rather weird how they have the 5.7L Hemi in the Ram set up in terms of hp and tq settings. The only thing I will say in its defense is unlike many multivalve DOHC engines without VVT, I believe it naturally has a relatively flat hp and tq curve due to the more traditional OHV set up. Although it makes most of it up high, it is pretty consistent I believe throughout the RPM range. It is also important to remember that in comparison to the 6.1L (which produces the peak hp at 6200 & tq at 4800), it isn't entirely like a performance engine it its RPM characteristics, a little more than one would like in a truck granted, but not necessarily performance engine in a performance car in its hp and tq characteristics either. If they add a form of VVT, that should help to combat the problem as what is rumored to happen.

I think it should be sufficient for towing with your 2500. I have friends who have Hemi equipped Ram 2500 who previously had 5.9L Magnum equipped Ram 2500s and they use their trucks for work purposes (farming and the such) and they said it was quite an improvement. It won't rival the Cummins nor the V10 granted, but it is certainly sufficient for most people's needs.

Lordfoul, you have pretty much summed up my perspective on purchasing a Challenger. I prefer to wait until the options start being introduced to re-stimulate interest in the Challenger. Plus, all of the first year flaws are resolved by then.

Axel

Yes, it is very true to not compare these two as they really can't be compared. Almost like they are two different engines considering the setup they have from the truck to the car. Kind of a backwards change, but at the same time it makes one stand up and take notice of how much and exhaust can make a difference on a vehicle. Can't we just eliminate that completely and throw on the pipes out the side of the car, no caty converter? Yeah, I wish. And yes, I will agree that this engine isn't terribly bad for towing and is definitely an improvement over the 5.9L, the problem that most people complain about is that with the power that high, many people have to downshift to keep the truck moving uphill and towing, which is a given, but the noise is very excessive.

One thing that has impressed me about new cars these days is that they thankfully don't have problems like first years of yesteryear. There are definitely exceptions to the rule, but so far my wife's Avenger is doing ok, though I've had other first years that haven't, hence the exceptions to the rule. Technology is helping, but still hasn't gotten us to the point where we would like to be. Now another question, 08 will definitely be the first year of this car and the kinks should be worked out by 09, but in 09 we will have new engines which would mean new problems correct?

lear4406

Oh yeah, I agree totally RLSH. Stock to stock is bragging rights for sure. Just look at the Viper/Corvette disscusions on which is faster. And they have almost identicle HP and tq. specs. But the Z-06 comes out on top when tested for acceleration. But on the street ( strip) its anybodies race. So goes the Challenger/Camaro/Mustang comparisons when they occur. But its nice to be the under dog on the street and bust cars that are supposed to be quicker. But for bragging rights for the Corporations, you have to compare stock for stock. And that is what it should be. After mods anything can happen and does. Their have been many a butt whippens occured, because someone said "stock"? Yeah stock! And they had an after market air cleaner or mufflers. So the race went down only to find out someones stock is anothers modified. I hope Chrysler wins that road test in the mag over the Camaro, but if they come up shy, that does'nt mean I will.

RLSH700

Axle: I hear you loud and clear about the downshifting complaints. That causes the engine to use more fuel, plus it can't be helping the transmission to have to constantly shift back and forth. In all truth, it is probably more than just the exhaust, it could also be the intake and a few other factors. Generally an exhaust improvement causes the hp & tq peak to go higher as opposed to lower on the RPM level.

Yes, if the Challenger receives updated engines, like any other vehicle, it could have some first year problems. I would wait a year or two before getting the new engines to let them work out the bugs. Your right that newer car flaws are a lot less severe and less common than cars of yesteryear. Even new cars towards the end of their run can have problems when they are new. My family had a 1996 Olds Ciera (5 years after getting rid of it, I still have a special place in my heart just to hate it) and even though it was the last year of that model (thank God), the starter went out on it within the first month of ownership. The most recent problem we had with my parent's 02 Caravan was the windshield wipers got out of squence (they were running into each other). It was quite amusing to watch.

Lear4406: Even if the Challenger is the slowest in the pack (which I doubt), that will not stop me from getting one. I love the Challenger and only the Challenger out of its competition. I just want to see Chrysler succeed is all. Also it depends on which comparison you looked at between the Viper and Z06. They were pretty much neck-to-neck, but now they upped the power on the Viper so the horsepower wars continue on those models.

I'm not going to hold my breathe that the Challenger will win in the eyes of the magazines. They generally hate the cars I like. They also are inconsistent in their reasoning (sometimes they cite "bang for your buck;" other times they cite "the best interior;" other times they cite "driving characteristics;" but the rest of the time its the actual performance). I don't let magazine editors make decisions for me. It's my money, I'll choose for myself.

Jeremiah 29:11

I agree with that one. If it is the slower of the bunch, well I guess I will just have to fix that problem.

It certainly is the best looking of the bunch.

RLSH700

Amen to that! The Challenger is the only one that does anything for me in the category of looks. The engine can always be modified later, I just would like it to be faster at the stock level for bragging rights.

Jeremiah 29:11

From what I can tell it should flames the tires nicely.