RLSH700

Where are you getting 6.3L? The article says 6.2L and the LS3 is only a 6.2L engine. The reason for the 402hp is probably one of two reasons: 1. Due to spacing needs the engine had to have something changed like the intake that made it lose power, or 2. They are doing the exact same thing they did back when they gave both the Firebird/Camaro and the Corvette the LS1. They are doctoring the numbers to try to avoid sales cannibalization. Or it could be a combo of both.

Will the G8 take some sales from the Charger? Some for sure, but I wouldn't say its curtains for the Charger either. Dodge has a better track record in large car sales in recent years than Pontiac so don't be too sure. The reason why the 6.0L puts out less power in the G8 as it did in the GTO is because the 6.0L is a L76 not a LS2. The L76 has Active Fuel Management (similar to MDS) and is a compromise engine between performance and fuel economy like the 5.7L Hemi is.

The GTO will be able to smash any of these cars? What cars are you referring to? And what does the Vette vs. the GT500KR have to do with this thread?

I don't recall us constantly putting you on the defense of the GTO, it is a car that although I'm not crazy about the exterior styling, I think was a good package overall. I will have to disagree with you on the Challenger "looks good but that's it." comment. Depending on which magazine you prefer, the different ones had different outcomes with the GTO on top and others had the Charger SRT-8 on top and in both cases they were comparing the manual to the Charger's automatic. The Challenger is going to have the more efficient TR-6060 manual that will allow us to see what the more powerful 6.1L Hemi can do. The other thing is the top speed of the GTO was around 159mph according to R&T magazine, whereas the Challenger is claimed to be in the 170mph territory.

I can understand your frustration with naming the coupe the G8 coupe as in my opinion that route is unoriginal (just like the name G8 is) and would be nicer to see the GTO badge used instead.

MrKrisSullivan

My bad then I meant the 6.2. Which is not the LS3 like you said which is garbage then my point. Bigger engine and the same numbers?? That stinks that's all. I guess that's what makes it more affordable. I know this 4 door will be under 30k because that's there selling point. So the GTO did have the better package the whole time. To me they should of just invented a 4 door GTO like Dodge did with the Charger. They were ahead of the game and weren't sure of them-selves. It's obvious.
Yeah I didn't think about the cylinder de-activation. But Dodge has a better track record in sedans primarily do to the Charger/300c which are about the same car.
The GTO will smash any of these cars coming out now but the Vette' sorry for the misunderstanding.
Dude NO WAY!!!!! The Charger will never catch a GTO. If you want to put an SRT up to an LS1 maybe but if you want to compare apples to apples then the SRT vs. LS2 it's LS2 hands down brother. Please tell me where you read that?? The new moter-trend puts the G8 vs. R/T and the G8 takes it so think about that.

RLSH700

Well the issue that you haven't taken into account for the LS3 having an advantage over the LS2 is power consistency. The LS3 has VVT which will provide more power consistently throughout the RPM range. I would still say that GM is probably underrating the LS3 in this model for possibly insurance reasons and to prevent it from taking sales from the Corvette since GM did this before by rating the LS1 in the F-cars at 305hp & 335ft-lbs initially when it was producing around the normal 350hp & 365ft-lbs of tq.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the had the better package the whole time" and "they were ahead of the game and weren't sure of them-selves." Are you saying that they should have just built the sedan version of the Australian based GTO since they are now doing that with the G8? I would agree to about this to some degree. If you remember back in 2004, the only RWD cars outside of the luxury arena were the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Marauder. They watched the Marauder fail and saw that the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis were getting little customer use outside of fleet use, it didn't look like it would be a very safe market especially after their Firebird/Camaro had not been selling very well. On top of this, their Bonneville were not selling worth a darn, so it is understandable that they would not feel safe about doing this. The other thing you have to acknowledge is that the GTO was a flop. They thought they could resolve the problem by lowering the price and giving it their best engine at the time the LS2, but it still wouldn't sell. Had they made a V6 version and offered the LS4 as the first level V8, its possible it might have gone over better. A sedan version would have worked most likely (but it would be wise to give it a different name); however, they would have to get rid of the W-body offering (Grand Prix) first if that was what they were wanting to do since they would be too similar in size and looked too similar.

What I'm actually referring to is Dodge's success in large sedans for the last 15 years. The Intrepid was a success throughout its run while the Bonneville ended its life with only about 12K units sold in its final year despite the fact that during most of the time, the Bonneville was actually faster. Price was an issue though since the Bonneville was significantly more expensive. My point is that Dodge's bread and butter is full-sized cars in the car market, and Pontiac tends to do better with mid-sized cars.

I don't think the GTO will smash a normal GT500 as I am yet to see a GTO hit 60mph faster than the fastest recorded times I have read about the normal GT500. The top speed is slightly higher according to the R&D listing of the GTO since the GT500 is about 155mph. I also doubt that is true with the Challenger as it is about to receive an upgraded manual that the Charger neve

MrKrisSullivan

I understand brother. Yeah I would of liked to see them just put a sedan out and call it a GTO but the coupe came first and everyone flew for the Charger. Yeah the GTO was a flop but not performance wise.
I looked your link up it's still confuses me but if that's true then there is a half second differnce in times which is nutty but ohh well. Still the fastest time i've read on a charger. So honestly for my money Im just not going to budge on this one im betting 9 out of 10 times the LS2 take an SRT sedan. The Challenger i'll hold my breath on the SRT because now your makeing a point. We'll see soon though when times start popping up. Im not makeing this argument on one article it's on several articles i've read. Ohh yeah that .2 difference in moter-trend with the G8. It only has 361 horses. So the GTO is almost 300 pounds lighter and has 40 more ponies, that's a big difference. Ohh well im going to stop ranting I know im in the middle of a snake pit and im a rat so to speak. I'll leave with this in no way would I bring this up with only one artcle to site. Im refering to almost every credible mag out there when I refer to the GTO not some schmo on the street. Much love it's been fun rambling your the coolest RLSH. In the end if I bought a Challenger I won't be able to afford an SRT and the money I save can be used in the long run to transform the GOAT into a mean looking maching, and honestly I think the simple lines will help in that effect. Peace...

RLSH700

If they would have called a sedan GTO, the performance enthusiast community would have really screamed murder, I think if they would have made a sedan version and kept everything the same and called it the Grand Prix, it would have been a major hit. I absolutely agree that it was a nice performance machine, it wasn't a failure in performance by anymeans, it just didn't sell unfortunately. If they would have made a lower V8 model and a V6 versions along with the LS2, it probably would still be in production.

I'm confused as well on why there are so many acceleration time differences on many cars, some cars like the current Mustang GT is pretty consistent at 5.1secs with a couple reviews about .2-.3 secs difference, yet others like the 5.7L Hemi powered cars can range by almost a 1 sec difference (I've seen 5.3 secs for the 300C in C&R and the slowest I've read is 6.2 secs). Some of it has to be weather influenced and skill of the driver. It could as be based on whether or not they used the traction control.

Well based on the articles I have read concerning these offerings that would be 1/3 times that the LS2 GTO won over a SRT-8 powered LX car.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ecs_price.html

I also read quite a variety of magazines and the SRT sedans are not an easy animal to beat, to see how the slightly smaller and lighter Challenger coupe will fair is going to be interesting. I've enjoyed debating with you, its fun to have another person's perspective.

mopar2ya

Funny thing is though, the article I read they pitted the 6.2 pontiac against the r/t Charger... the 5.7... not the SRT8 with the 6.1. Why do you suppose they decided to put it up against the big dogs little bro? Me thinks I smells something fishy with this whole comparison.

RLSH700

Which article did you read? The only articles I have read have included the 6.0L because I thought the GXP has not even been released as of yet. Could you provide a link or tell me what magazine it was in?