Paladin06

DITTO - The car will sell for what the market will bare it's just that simple.

GTO JUDGE

There is a difference in making a profit and gouging. When you have little respect for the consumer base and charge obscene mark ups it goes beyond making a profit. For example all the sudden Exxon deems it necessary to make 100 billion in profits. Excessive? Even some analysts say it is. There is no justification for Ford to charge 20K in mark up fees, NONE. It's "justifiable" greed. I agree customers will dictate pricing but the few who are willing to be taken are the examples and reasons dealers try and justify their rationale. Defending unreasonable markups is like defending profiteering. Can anyone fault a business owner for wanting to make more? NO, but then some go beyond. Why are farmers capped with a ceiling on milk? Why can't they make obscene profits? The guy who sells a hammer to the federal government who charges them 4 thousand dollars for it, then the government cries foul. If the government paid the 4k for the hammer then they have no reason to put that guy under investigation but they do, then fine him......Gas station owners are handicapped as well they can only make so much. I read in NC a gas station owner decided to give a 2 cent a gallon break to the elderly and handicapped. The NC state government threatened to fine him if he did not charge the going rate for gas. Why? It's his business. If wants to take a hit on profit why can't he? NC would lose tax revenue on it that's why.

The automakers can blame unscrupulous dealers for some of the lagging sales. Some mark up the cars then after a while they run a special selling the cars at the intended price set by the manufacturer. Until consumers show dealers they are not willing to be taken advantage of you will have dealers hosing people. Funny, people are furious over the high cost of health care but many of those people justify huge profits for oil companies and others. I don't think anyone can fault a business for making a nice profit. Then there are those who go to the extreme.

Old_Goat

GTO Judge, it's all about context and values.

When I go to a casino, I play red ($5) chips because I realize that even though they are red chips, they represent $5 each. I realize that 10 of them pay the water bill, 12 of them pay for the natural gas bill. This is why casinos want chips (checks) used, because a majority of people lose their sense of values.

The same for a hot new car on the market. I will rot in hell before paying over MSRP. I have my values set at my predetermined level, while some guy could care less about values and throw another 20K over MSRP. Maybe he is worth a couple of million, while I am not. His 20K could even be like pocket change to me.

It's also about wants versus needs, I want the car, but don't need it. The guy who pays 20K over MSRP has determined he needs the car and has the cash to back up his needs.

I find it hard to spot integrity in the special market such as the Shelby, Challenger. If some guy can sell the car and get a big chunk of change for his efforts, he is self-justified by putting more food on the table for his family.

I hate this marking up over MSRP, however I have learned to live with it as something that will happen. It is out of my control, but what is in my control is what I will pay.

GTO JUDGE

Yea I realize all that, and the market will dictate pricing etc. It just irks me. If people are willing to pay whatever then more power to the dealer to charge them. I just think their profits would be there if they sold more at a reasonable price. If the profits aren't there then dealers wouldn't be passing ownership to the next generation. To me 46K for a car projected at 25K is not reasonable. Everyones wallet defines reasonable differently. Many may think 20K is a fair mark up. Just when does it become unfair? I would assume when sales stop completely.

The GTO for example was targeted for the mid income 40K a year person in the 40's age range. I would assume the Mustang GT was the same. But when mark up by a dealer is 20K above the projected pricing set by the manufacturer the dealer is now targeting a higher income range not directly intended by the manufacturer. If the name of the game is to sell cars, charging a huge mark up is turning off more buyers than those who buy them. Sales will suffer and sales dictate whether the car lives or dies. I just hope Dodge dealers don't do what Ford did with the Mustang. I want a Challenger pretty bad, but my spinchter only opens so wide.
[sm=yikesomg.gif]

Cuda340

I'm like a lot of you guys.

I want the Challenger badly but do not need it.

I will watch the market closely in 2008 and will buy only if I can get a reasonable price. Otherwise, I will wait until 2009 to see if the demand dies down.

Paladin06

I'm not waiting. I've waited since 1975 (19 years old) to own a real muscle car. That's long enough.

danio3834

Gouging would be falsely overpricing staples, like milk, bread, and gasoline. Marking the sticker up on a Challenger isnt gouging cause you dont need it. The guy listing his '85 Mustang in the autotrader for 20 grand isn't gouging either, just dont buy it.

GTO JUDGE

Gouge: : to subject to extortion or undue exaction : OVERCHARGE
Overcharge: to charge too much or too fully

Call it what you want and whether you buy it or not. 20K over sticker is overcharged or gouged.
You are right...... just don't buy it. I agree.

GTO JUDGE

Gouge: : to subject to extortion or undue exaction : OVERCHARGE
Overcharge: to charge too much or too fully

Call it what you want and whether you buy it or not. 20K over sticker is overcharged or gouged.
You are right...... just don't buy it. I agree.

RoswellGrey

Paladin06, I bought my first Challenger (a 1970) in 1974 (18 years old) -- mainly because I was waiting till I considered one to be affordable. I fully intend to wait till the new Challengers are what I consider affordable. With age, my friend, comes even more patience.