RLSH700

You forgot the part where Toyota paid off the press members not to report the engine they sneeked into the boat.

The unions are a problem. I have no love for unions after their greedy behavior killed my hometown. I think the stockholders should base a CEO's salary on performance of the company (but evaluated thoroughly to make sure the success is not just short term sales just to make themselves look good). The primary problem with the big three is they are following instead of leading the market. The Japanese beat them to 5-speed automatics and VVT offered with their OHC engines. They replace their reliable engines (GM 3800, Chrysler 3.3L, Ford 4.0L OHV) for junk (GM 3.5L/3.9L High Value, Chrysler 2.7L, and Ford 4.0L SOHC) in the models where the Japanese are competitive. They don't utilize the right engines nor the right outputs with the right cars (Sebring and Avenger get the lower output 3.5L which hasn't been updated since '99 is supposed to defeat a brand new engine from Toyota and an updated Nissan engine with the latest technology). They fail to lead the market then get overtaken. The Japanese also succeed because their dirty laundry gets covered-up by the media, while the media is more than proud to expose any minor mistake that the Big Three have.

RoswellGrey

The "media" (whatever you mean by that) "covering up" for Toyota? Hmmmmm. Let's see. Using the Express-News' searchable files and only using the keyword "Toyota," let's see some headlines in the newspaper in the past couple months:

Ford tops Toyota in quality study
U.S. automaker leads in 5 segments of J.D. Power survey; but Porsche best in overall ranking of brands. (6-7-07)

Detroit automakers gain in productivity (6-1-07)

A flaw in a few Tundras
20 camshafts have broken (5-30-07)

Toyota profit up 9%, but growth slows (5-10-07)

Sorry, RLSH700. Doesn't sound like much of a cover-up to me.

RLSH700

I'm talking about Toyota's massive oil sludge problem that effected most of their engine line from 1997 to 2001, yet they have a flawless reputation according to the reliability statistics for those years. On top of this Toyota has had a lot of transmission issues with their new 6-speed automatic in the Camry, yet the press doesn't focus on that either. Not too long ago Toyota had one of the worst recall issues out of every manufacturer, yet we don't hear about how unreliable Toyotas are. That new Toyota 3.5L rattles something awful but you won't hear about it. If you believe everything you read, you would believe that God himself made the interior in the Camry for the last ten-fifteen years, yet it is nothing to write home about. Hard plastics like everyone else, yet domestic models like say the Intrepid that had softer materials were called cheap.

Read the service guide and you will figure out why they have such a good reputation. They replace things a lot more often in Toyotas. A friend of mine paid $1200 for her 90K service. Mine was less than half of that.

Ha! J.D. Power hit a new lower level in relivance if they honestly want us to believe that Porsche is reliable.

Now how about the Ford-Firestone scandal. The media smeared Ford up and down over what was actually the fault of Firestone who has developed a reputation over the years for making junk tires (namely the Firestone 500). There are tons of automotive reviews where the press will in a comparison bring up the question if the domestic model is reliable enough to consider, yet they will rubber stamp any Toyota model as being perfect when the fact is there are no guarantees no matter who makes it despite popular belief. Toyota will follow the Big Three's decline when the press turns against them and reminds people of Toyota's flaws like they enjoy reminding people of the Big Three's flaws.

Paladin06

The Ramblings of a MAD man. Quotes from head of the CAW Union. Sounds like he really cares about feeding the union workers and the families.

"I say to them, you better find a G** damn product for Windsor or we'll take all of the General Motors corporation down in September 2008. General Motors workers have earned the commitment, especially in Windsor."

"If there's a strike, it's the whole GM chain that's out, not just one plant."

-Buzz Hargrove

Paladin06

It was not massive my friend. Massive is a strong word. My wife and I have owned at least six Toyota's over the past 24 years. The only maintenance we ever did on any of the cars was scheduled maintenance. Wait I did have to replace the alternator on my wife's 1982 Celica that had 184K on it.

RLSH700

Actually it was quite massive. One of these days I will look through some archieves to find the specific number of engines effected and it was the most common manufacturer with that problem. Some models since then have had that problem. I'm not surprised that you haven't had that problem because most people who religiously change their oil or use synthetic are immune to it. Based on how much you spent on your Solara, it is obvious that your cars are something that you value equite significantly. The fact is I know people whom have had this issue and I get sick of seeing problems like this happening and them coming out smelling like a rosie because the auto press doesn't dwell on it like they dwell on problems that the Big Three have had. Most people that I know whom have Toyotas have more service done while thinking nothing of it. My boss just had his wife's Sienna's differental (pardon the spelling) flushed according to him, yet my parents never had to do than on any of the Chrysler models we have owned. The friend who had the Camry had to have a whole bunch of gaskets replaced that was specificed as regular maintenance.

I have no love for the mafia run unions. As far as I'm concerned the industry would be better off without them. I don't support the Big Three for that, I support them because it is part of my heritage and based on my families experence has had lots of good vehicles from them. We have had various models from the big three that have lasted for a very long time with minimal serious problems. I buy from the Big Three because I like their cars better as a whole. I don't like Toyota's styling or interior, it looks bland and boring to me. I don't like their engines. I don't like the way their transmissions operate. It is simply that some people just like certain brands and don't like other brands because they are able to see flaws that others cannot see. There are other Japanese brands that I like. I like Honda because I have seen that they make good quality engines and I like Nissan for the VQ. I like Yamaha for the 3.0L and 3.2L SHO engines and wished they would have used them in sportier models.

I criticize the Big Three regularly when they screw up. I bad mouth the 2.7L on a regular basis for having the same problem as those Toyota engines. I criticize Ford's Duratech, 3.8L, and 4.0L engines. I bad mouth most of GMs engines for quality problems. I don't always give the Big Three the nod for being perfect.

Also another reason why I prefer the Big Three are these comparisons in other magazines that actually use the vehicles for their true purposes. Around 2002 a farming magazine had a comparison between the full-sized truck offerings from the Big Three and Toyota. All of these trucks were given serious abuse and Toyota got dead last in durability. I also heard a case where Camrys were being used as police cars and fell to pieces. When I read this, I ask myself how on earth can they be so reliable but fall apart anytime their being abused. This is why I refuse to believe that Toyotas are as reliable as they claim they are.

Paladin06

Good points all but like it or not in the very near future Toyota will be the #1 selling cars in America and the world and that is just a fact. Now, they have some problems but they didn't get to be #1 by waving banners saying buy American. They have always focused on quality, safety, affordability and what their target market wanted in a car.

One well known fact about the success of Toyota is that when they first came to America written into their LRBP was a 20 year no profit policy. They did that to get Americans to buy their cars so that once owned the quality, safety and affordability built into their cars would bring the buying public back to the Toyota dealerships and you know what, it worked.

Now for interior, Chrysler has always had a reputation for horrible interiors and that is also a fact. Even life long loyal Mopar owners have always stated the interior designs were the worst of the big three.


Well I said all that to say, I'm buying a Challenger and it will most likely be my last new car in this life and nothing or no body is going to change that. I even told my wife that should I get called to go and join Gods Army before the Challenger hits the market, go buy one, take a few real nice professional pictures of it and put them in my coffin, drive it to funeral at Arlington National Cemetery, then keep it or give it too the daughter. I might even write it in my will.

RLSH700

And they will implode just like the Big Three because their arrogance is getting the best of them already. They focused on perceived quality by calling certain things maintenance and having the customer replace them at the customers expense. They are not the benchmarkers in safety. They have had their safety issues as well espically on some of their RAV4 models in the past with flipping over too easily.

There is no way on earth that anyone in their right mind could claim that Chrysler's interior could possibly be lower than GMs. GM interior is very akwardly set up, is super cheap, and down right ugly. The only GM division that has any decent leather until Lutz took over was Cadillac. Chrysler's leather is much nicer than anything from any of the other GM divisions. GM's steering wheels lose their coloration and foam consistently. Until Lutz was incharge many of Pontiacs seats were practically the same as they offered back in the 80s. The "leather" that they offered in the Grand Prix until Lutz came in was more similar to plastic than leather. The LeSabre's leather was also supe cheap. GM has the reputation for the most generic interior. I simply don't buy that at all. Some Ford models might have better interior but not all models. Heck my friends who own Japanese cars even say that Chrysler interior is actually nice and complain about GMs on a regular basis.

Okay here's your opportunity, what is so terrible about Chrysler's interior?

Paladin06

I see we agree to disagree. It's bland...[&o]

RLSH700

Are you referring to the most recent models' interior (300C, Charger, Sebring, Avenger, Caliber, etc.) or are you refering to the previous models (Intrepid, 300M, LHS/Concorde, Stratus/Cirrus/Sebring/Breeze)? The newest interior doesn't impress me, but that is partly becaue MB and their ultra-low benchmarks wouldn't allow Chrysler to have their previous higher quality materials. The true Chrysler stuff impresses me, not the cheaped out ex MB parts bin.