mopar2ya

Have to agree with Yankee... this really isn't the place for such propaganda. To be able to make up, influence, manipulate and enforce the rules of a forum to favor one's own agenda is totally inappropriate at best. I thought I was here to participate in a Dodge Challenger forum as I am sure others are too. Were I to start preaching the word of allah, buddah, satan or other religious icons of my particular preference I am sure the moderators would likely deem it inappropriate and have it striken from the forum... and for good reason. I understood this forum to be a common place for Challenger enthusiasts to unite and discuss thier common interest in the Dodge Challenger. Quite frankly, if I was looking to share my "spirituality" in a forum, I personally would not see it as appropriate to impart such "off topic" messages to the membership of a forum dedicated to an entirely unrelated subject.

The subject matter of this thread has no business in this forum and can serve no purpose other than to create dissention and division among a group of people who likely have very different and very passionate opposing viewpoints in areas such as this. Obviously in a group this size there will be diverse membership which includes participants from all political and religious backgrounds and beliefs. As for my beliefs... I believe it is entirely inappropriate for members of a forum such as this, to drag such controversial musings to a forum such as this... and even more so with the ranking officials running and moderating such a forum. Really appears to be a self serving arrogant lack of consideration for others and thier beliefs.

Jeremiah 29:11

Yankee, you said you did not want to PM'ed. Okay, you said . I am not sure I would say we and secondly you violated one of the forum rules by using profanity on our "family friendly forum".

Consider yourself warned.

By the way, You really are new......... I am one of three Moderators.


Incidently, since both of you guys are new I think you need to read the forum rules so you don't break any rules:

https://dodgechallenger.com/forums/fb.asp?m=19883

I did do a Bible study that went from February - September 2007 that had to do with "Raising Your Family".

Here it is for your reference: https://dodgechallenger.com/forums/fb.asp?m=10292

If you do not like these Bible study, please feel free to change the channel.

Enjoy our "family friendly forum".

mopar2ya

Jeremiah... exactly the sort of arrogance I am talking about. You, as a moderator, should be held to a higher standard than the general population that claims membership to this forum, yet you have no regard for who you may offend or otherwise provoke with your posts. In fact, you seem to enjoy antogonizing members with your condensending holier than thou attitude. It is really quite shameful and disrespectful of others, and does not seem to follow the attitude of grace and respect that you preach.

As for the rules.. yes, I have read them... over a year ago when I signed up on this forum. Thank you for the condensending remark about joining three days ago and being "really new" and advising me I best be reading the rules so I don't break them. Also newbie Yankee who has only been here since March of 2007 so you "understand him to be new" and consider him "warned". I would not consider Yankee to be "new" with over a year under his belt here. Really cool throwing your "moderator" status around to manipulate the rules and threaten membership just as I eluded to earlier. Nice work.

This type of attitude and self righteousness is pathetic... boot me if you wish, after all it would seem the only important members would be those who share in your beliefs and opinions... pathetic!

Jeremiah 29:11

God is like a parent helping his children. He is the wise one and we need his guidance to do His will he has for our lives.
We try to be good parents to our children and we certainly want to do what we expect of them to keep them safe and from harm. We as parents
know what is best for them. The same is true for God and his children, after all he made each one of us and knows what is best for each of us.

The greatest commandment is to love God with all of our heart, mind, and spirit.

The 2nd commandment is to love our neighbor as our self.

Christians by definition are Christ followers and as such we are to follow his commandments. Being "unhinged" and "nasty people"
is not being a Christ follower.

By the way, Christians are not perfect, just forgiven. Many people expect us to be perfect but we are only human with many failings and so yes
we will sin and make mistakes. As such, we are called hypocrites. As we grown in our walk with God and study his word, we are to learn from him and
hopefully people will see Jesus working in our lives. Those people are called Christians, but remember we are not perfect, just forgiven.

Enjoy the forum.

Jeremiah 29:11

Sorry, I told you I wasn't perfect.

As for Yankee, he said he did not want to be PM'ed and so I posted it. I usually PM people about profanity on our "family friendly forum".

We need to leave that kind of language out.

That is certainly not the intent. All I try to do is speak truth. When we consider ourselves to be better, then we will surely stumble and fail as some point. AFter all God wants us to humble but yet stand bold for him.

We did the last Bible study for a many months and many enjoyed it. If you do not enjoy the study, then by all means change the channel.

Yankee

So I'm guessing, "Jeremiah", that what you're really trying to say, is that this "family friendly forum" consists largely what YOU consider appropriate and to "heck" with anyone else who may disagree with you... am I right? How is this fair? From what this thread has shown so far, your posts, along with your blatantly arrogant holier-than-thou attitude here, have offended far more people here than my choice of "profane language" which has apparently (and selectively) offended only... well, YOU (gee, and I get a "warning" for it, go figure).

Well, consider this YOUR "warning", sir (and to those who also arrogantly post religious propaganda/musings/whatever). We might not be moderators or have any moderating power, but we DO have the right to respectfully speak our minds, and to disregard our wishes like you have when we do shows blatant disrespect for us that don't agree with you, and we deserve better. As a moderator, you need to be the example, not the instigator. If you feel the need to post such things, again, create your own sub-forum. This condescending "change the channel if you don't like it" attitude you shamefully display just shows the whole Challenger-appreciating world how much you just don't get it, and as such, you've shown everyone here except perhaps a very select few, that you have no business being a moderator here.

Bottom line, is NO. We're not changing the channel, we're staying right here. If you feel the need to continue this, I think it's high time for you to create your OWN channel.

RLSH700

Alright you three, I want you to listen to this very carefully because I get tired of repeating myself on this. Jeremiah got permission when he started to post threads about subjects such as this. Many other forums I have been a member of will constantly pick topics that are far more controversial than this and they will not even be nice about it and the moderators are generally the ones who will bring up the topic. Jeremiah has not broken any rules; therefore, you have no leg to stand on in this whole complaint. In fact, the ones who are breaking rules are you by attacking him personally and if you don't cut it out, there will be consequences to pay for those. If you want to disagree, you may, just do it in a friendly manner (this means disagreeing without calling anyone a "Bible thumper", "a religious fanatic," or another terms which by definition is a form of propaganda, which makes those who use these terms and accuse Jeremiah of spreading "propaganda" a hypocrite).

Yankee, we know you don't like these treads, but all I can tell you is you might as well get used to it. I have to hear things I disagree with on a daily basis on some of these forums and never get my way on the outcome. What Paladin said is the truth, if you don't like reading it, move on. In all truth, Jeremiah is an outstanding moderator. There is no rule saying that a moderator is not entitled to his own opinions and by the fact that Jeremiah remains above personal attacks shows that he IS holding himself to a higher standard. Yes, the topic that Jeremiah is discussing may be a subject that some people do not feel comfortable discussing, but the fact of the matter is he does it without being rude about it.

The truth of the matter is we have had various topics discussed here which many members of the staff disagree with and we allow them to continue as long as they don't violate the rules; therefore, we are not creating a one channel system that you are complaining about.

mopar2ya, I have read through Jeremiah's remarks very carefully and I find no evidence of arrogance or a "holier than thou attitude." If that was there, I would call him on it; however, what I'm seeing is you blindly accusing him of doing things because you disagree with his viewpoint. That is a form of bigotry that I will not tolerate around here. Everyone deserves respect on this forum no matter what their personal beliefs are as long as they do not violate any of our rules.

Yankee

Way to try to skirt the issue, RLSH.

RLSH, it's time for YOU to listen carefully, so listen up. I don't know you personally but you've always struck me as an articulate stand-up guy that I've respected... until now.

I can't believe, after all this, that myself and Mopar2ya (and the rest of us who DARE speak out against this) are STILL getting the tired, boring "shut up and color" response. We don't care if Jeremiah got "permission" to post such things (and just how do you get such "permission" anyway?)

It's obvious that YOU don't get it either (or you're just too afraid to confront Jeremiah about this for whatever reason). Well, I'm NOT. A moderator's role is to be fair and impartial - to ALL. That means YOU, RLSH. That means Jeremiah. Do you people understand what that means? And since you, along with Jeremiah, can't seem to grasp this, it appears that you have no business being a moderator here either. To continually refuse to do so (and to berate and insult those of us who disagree with such religious postings with your tepid, lame "change the channel" responses) only continues to show your self-righteous arrogance. RLSH, since you insist on giving Jeremiah and others a free pass to do this, you are just as guilty as he is.

For the umpteenth freakin time now... this board is for discussing the new Challenger and other such subjects that are NOT controversial - that INCLUDES religion. And, for the umpteenth freakin time now... if you feel the need to do so, CREATE YOUR OWN SUBFORUM. It's JUST that simple. And I don't appreciate being lectured like I'm some recalcitrant child because I refuse to fall in lock-step with what you "moderators" deem acceptable - you KNOW I and others have a valid point, whether you like it or not. And I guarantee that there are many more of us than there are of you.

You "moderators" here seem to be conveniently forgetting something: You are beholden to this board's sponsors, are you not? If I DON'T get some satisfaction on this, they WILL hear from me, and I'm guessing that they won't be too pleased at how the "moderators" on this board are representing their products with controversial postings and the subsequent belittling "if you don't like it, change the channel" responses...

So go ahead, tell me to "change the channel" again. Go ahead, give me a suspension or outright ban. Go ahead and delete or lock this post. Do that, and the letter gets sent, which all of you will have to answer for. Do NOT call my bluff on this. I WILL do it!

The sad fact about all this is, it didn't have to come to this. I and others have tried (and tried) to settle this like gentlemen. But no, you "moderators" chose to get arrogant and self-righteous and defend your indefensible actions - YOU are the ones with no leg to stand on, not us.

So, gentlemen, the solution is simple: Create your own religious sub-forum and all of this goes away. There will be no letter to your sponsors. Then you guys can talk all the religion, sex, politics or whatever you else want. Then we can start talking about the Challenger and other car-stuff again and make this a great place for ALL of us.

You DARE to tell ME to shut up and color?! I think not. [sm=badidea.gif]

mopar2ya

RLSH... nice... I guess you moderators must stick together, so delete the posts that don't "conform" to your so-called rules, call me a bigot, and threaten to kick me from the board.

Why not a more sensible approach... maybe there should be some thought regarding posts that will create such unwarranted controversy in the first place. There really is no place for it in this type of forum. The membership is far to diverse to introduce such subjects and then have the "moderators" control the thread to thier liking.

So, guess me and Yankee get called names and booted because we think the moderators have performed poorly and felt strongly enough to voice our "unacceptable" responses. This obviously isn't how "rules" should work. Pretty poor...

Maybe it would be more appropriate to limit such posts from the start to avoid such controversy in th first place? Again, there is really no place for such controversial, potentially volitale posts in a family friendly Dodge Challenger forum, which I believe is why we are all here in the first place. The subject matter in question is really so far removed from the subject matter of the forum it doesn't even fit. That said, maybe a solution would be to put up a topic heading for spiritual posts, that those who wish to partake could post to thier hearts content, and those who don't appreciate such a topic in this forum could simply not participate in those topics.

1 Bad Mirada

I will end this thread making a final comment.

Im frustrated to see that members of our forum cannot discuss their faith without being hassled. I will admit that I am not a particularly religious individual, but I do believe in a persons freedom to discuss their views without being bashed, and that was how this whole mess began.

The point of this whole forum is to discuss our passion for the Dodge Challenger, but there are off-topic sections for people to discuss other topics. It just so happens that this forum has a great many people with strong religious beliefs, and I see no reason why someone would bash someone for discussing a certain topic. If you arent interested in something, dont read the thread. If you go into a thread and see think "ugh..another religious thread", dont scroll to the reply button...just hit "back", because there is nothing to be gained in mocking someone for their views.

In order to try to make this a friendly forum for everyone, the staff is discussing ideas to cater to both those who feel strongly about their religion, and those who feel strongly about disputing religion.

I close by saying this...I dont want to ban any members for a difference of opinion, and I dont want to have to ban a topic like religious views, but since the dawn of time, people have argued about religion and it has never gotten anyone anywhere...and its not going to get this forum anywhere. If you see a thread that you dont like, dont post. If you feel that you can discuss the topic without turning it into a fight even though you do not agree, you are free to do so, but this began as a religious thread and immeadiately turned into a thread bashing a moderator, and for the information of all, that person "billbrasky" is a troll who has been banned 5 or 6 times now...so several people ran to the aid of someone who has consistantly worked to make this forum unpleasant...

All things to consider.